FROG JUICE (dermorphin)

[TJ]

You think after what happened to Christophe Clemente and the year suspension he got would of been enough for these knuckleheads to not even try this drug on there horses.

I sure hope they come down hard on these trainers. One trainer was using this stuff for the last 2 years.

Hi AG,
Was that Christophe Clement or were you thinking of Patrick Biancone? If it was Biancone, which I think it may have been...he was caught for possession of 3 sealed vials of Alpha-Cobratoxin (cobra venom)....much more potent then the froggies and there currently is no test for it. TJ

Cobra venom and dermorphin are two different types of drug. Cobra venom is like a nerve block and dermorphin is a synthetic morphine. Morphine makes horses and cats (don't ask me how I know) hyper and want to run, where cobra venom is used to block out pain - which is more dangerous and insidious. The pain killing effect is not the prime reason for the use of frog juice.

Hi Cas,
Yes, they are two different types, but both are class 1 drugs potent and ever more dangerous than anything out there. Yet a horse that's hopped up (demorphine) will run through pain just as easily as one that has been blocked by cobra venom or vegetable oil for that matter.....only at an even faster rate of speed to guarantee the breakdown. They both will relieve pain...one by being a narcotic and the other eliminating the sensation of pain to the nerves...But thanks for correcting me ? TJ

[casallc]

You think after what happened to Christophe Clemente and the year suspension he got would of been enough for these knuckleheads to not even try this drug on there horses.

I sure hope they come down hard on these trainers. One trainer was using this stuff for the last 2 years.

Hi AG,
Was that Christophe Clement or were you thinking of Patrick Biancone? If it was Biancone, which I think it may have been...he was caught for possession of 3 sealed vials of Alpha-Cobratoxin (cobra venom)....much more potent then the froggies and there currently is no test for it. TJ

Cobra venom and dermorphin are two different types of drug. Cobra venom is like a nerve block and dermorphin is a synthetic morphine. Morphine makes horses and cats (don't ask me how I know) hyper and want to run, where cobra venom is used to block out pain - which is more dangerous and insidious. The pain killing effect is not the prime reason for the use of frog juice.

Hi Cas,
Yes, they are two different types, but both are class 1 drugs potent and ever more dangerous than anything out there. Yet a horse that's hopped up (demorphine) will run through pain just as easily as one that has been blocked by cobra venom or vegetable oil for that matter.....only at an even faster rate of speed to guarantee the breakdown. But thanks for correcting me ? TJ

I agree. Anyone found to be running on either should be ruled off for life. There should not be ANY drugs found in any animal on the racetrack. If trainers and vets would spend more time assuring their horses are drug free and less time scheming how to beat the test barn with their secret pharmaceuticals - racing would be better for everyone (except the few who rely on drugs to enhance performance, many of whom are leading trainers ).

[TJ]

You think after what happened to Christophe Clemente and the year suspension he got would of been enough for these knuckleheads to not even try this drug on there horses.

I sure hope they come down hard on these trainers. One trainer was using this stuff for the last 2 years.

Hi AG,
Was that Christophe Clement or were you thinking of Patrick Biancone? If it was Biancone, which I think it may have been...he was caught for possession of 3 sealed vials of Alpha-Cobratoxin (cobra venom)....much more potent then the froggies and there currently is no test for it. TJ

Cobra venom and dermorphin are two different types of drug. Cobra venom is like a nerve block and dermorphin is a synthetic morphine. Morphine makes horses and cats (don't ask me how I know) hyper and want to run, where cobra venom is used to block out pain - which is more dangerous and insidious. The pain killing effect is not the prime reason for the use of frog juice.

Hi Cas,
Yes, they are two different types, but both are class 1 drugs potent and ever more dangerous than anything out there. Yet a horse that's hopped up (demorphine) will run through pain just as easily as one that has been blocked by cobra venom or vegetable oil for that matter.....only at an even faster rate of speed to guarantee the breakdown. But thanks for correcting me ? TJ

I agree. Anyone found to be running on either should be ruled off for life. There should not be ANY drugs found in any animal on the racetrack. If trainers and vets would spend more time assuring their horses are drug free and less time scheming how to beat the test barn with their secret pharmaceuticals - racing would be better for everyone (except the few who rely on drugs to enhance performance, many of whom are leading trainers ).

Hi Cas,
It still annoys me that Biancone, after being suspended for banned substances in Hong Kong, was permitted to get a trainer's license in America. Then to only give him a 1 year suspension after having found those vials of venom in his barn and knowing his history...he should have been given no less then 10 years. I knew the vet that was suspended along with him...his name was, believe it or not, Rod Stewart. They laid most of the blame on him, he got 5 years...but it's still bull, this man should have appreciated the fact he was training again...then he goes and does that? He doesn't deserve the great stock he has the privilege to train. TJ

[casallc]

Vets get much too easy of a ride at the racetrack. They are the one responsible for any overages or improper medications at the tracks. Per the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium:

"The veterinarian is the person responsible for tracking and reporting the administration of medications to the horse, not the trainer. There are rules in place that force the veterinarian to either turn in treatment reports on all horses or make them available for inspection by the state regulating body"

Vets either don’t want to do the paper work or the track doesn’t want to have to mess with it – probably both. When was the last time you heard of the vet getting fined or suspended for a horse getting a bad test? It is always the trainer except in rare cases like Biancone. It is such hypocrisy that turns people off to racing. They say one thing and do another. Vets make a lot of money off of owners and they know when trainers are loading up their horses even if they are not the one doing it for them. If their ass was on the line they would be best enforcers of medication rules instead of contributing offenders.

[ageecee]

3 quarterhorse trainers have been suspended at Delta Downs for 6 months for the frog juice or whatever you want to call it. Its a max 6 month suspension by Louisiana law but they can get more if the Racing Commission sees fit to lengthen the suspension.


Still waiting on the T'Bred trainers to get there suspension dont know why the EVD stewards are taking there time on this.

[BenB]

They are afraid, for publishing the facts, as several parties are having an interest in it, keeping it silent.

The american benovolence were proud to say, that there were only 11 cases of class 1 and 2 verdicts during the yrs 2009-2011, but now there are more than 30 already in QH and TB racing.

[TJ]

NY did something right. They've been in front of the rest and looking for demorphin several months now under Dr. George Maylin's testing program without a positive to date. TJ
http://www.drf.com/news/belmont-park-no ... hs-testing

[TJ]

Seems like their will be a shakeup in racing in some jurisdictions...the frogs are jumping up all over. Nine more found at Ruidosa and trainer banned 6 months at Louisiana Downs. TJ
Louisiana:
http://www.drf.com/news/louisiana-downs ... -month-ban
Ruidosa:
http://www.drf.com/news/ruidoso-downs-n ... medication

[JimP]

Six months is a joke why even ban them at all??? They will place
their barn under their assistants and wait out there time. Six months
and every thing is rosy once again!! They need to put some bite into
the cheaters and ban them for life. They knew it was wrong when the
used the stuff.

[TJ]

Six months is a joke why even ban them at all??? They will place
their barn under their assistants and wait out there time. Six months
and every thing is rosy once again!! They need to put some bite into
the cheaters and ban them for life. They knew it was wrong when the
used the stuff.

Hi Jim,
I agree with you....it seems that 6 months was the limit that commission was permitted to impose for an infraction this severe. That same commission is trying to work to get the 6 month limit increased....stay tuned. TJ

[Bunty Lawless]

You think after what happened to Christophe Clemente and the year suspension he got would of been enough for these knuckleheads to not even try this drug on there horses.

I sure hope they come down hard on these trainers. One trainer was using this stuff for the last 2 years.

Hi AG,
Was that Christophe Clement or were you thinking of Patrick Biancone? If it was Biancone, which I think it may have been...he was caught for possession of 3 sealed vials of Alpha-Cobratoxin (cobra venom)....much more potent then the froggies and there currently is no test for it. TJ

Biancone is back training at Santa Anita, Hollywood Park, etc.

[Bunty Lawless]

"

As long as ANY raceday medications are allowed, people will continue to try to beat the system. Morphine and synthetic morphines will make horses run faster than they want to, the pain killing effect is not the primary reason for use. It is hard for people to understand that a drug that actually would slow down a human, will make a horse run faster - but it does. Horses and humans react differently to different drugs. Lasix only makes these drugs harder to detect.

Respectfully disagree that stopping raceday meds will cease cheating. Also, Lasix actually helps horses from a health standpoint and I'd like to see whatever evidence you can source that it makes other drugs harder to find. They should regulate how a horse is trained, for humane reasons and the drugs would naturally go away, IMO.

[griff]

How does a substance get banned??

for example, I'm on Indomethacin due to a car accident a couple of years ago and was recently diagnosed with shingles but with no pain what so ever.

my neurologist said Indomethacin had probably also blocked the shingles pain and, forgive me. I immediately wondered if it would work on a horse.

So, is it safe for me to walk around the backside with a bottle of Indomethacin or does it depend on the track?

griff

[casallc]

"

As long as ANY raceday medications are allowed, people will continue to try to beat the system. Morphine and synthetic morphines will make horses run faster than they want to, the pain killing effect is not the primary reason for use. It is hard for people to understand that a drug that actually would slow down a human, will make a horse run faster - but it does. Horses and humans react differently to different drugs. Lasix only makes these drugs harder to detect.

Respectfully disagree that stopping raceday meds will cease cheating. Also, Lasix actually helps horses from a health standpoint and I'd like to see whatever evidence you can source that it makes other drugs harder to find. They should regulate how a horse is trained, for humane reasons and the drugs would naturally go away, IMO.

Show me yours and I'll show you mine. "Lasix actually helps horses from a health standpoint" that is a pretty bold statement. There has never been a definitive study on lasix and its effects on EIPH. There have been some so-called studies to support lasix, such as the South African, but the controls were flawed and it would never pass muster as a scientific study. Likewise there are other studies (equally flawed Canadian) rejecting the benefits.

You are correct that stopping race day meds will not stop cheating - as long as there is any kind of competition there will be cheating. It will go a long way in stopping the hypocrisy. The idea that you will allow one performance enhancing drug while banning others is insane. Lasix HAS been proven to move a horse up anywhere from 1.3 to 2.4 lengths. The more Lasix, and the closer it is administered to the race, the more intense the alkalinization effect of Lasix = Mini Milkshake. Horses are unlike almost any other creature in the way that they process oxygen and red blood cells (racehorse fuel) the blood thickens 50% during all out exertion, their heart is unique in its capability to process the thicker blood, supercharged with red blood cells, that have been stored in the spleen waiting for that moment. Lasix interferes with that process, thinning the blood and dumping it into an ill prepared body that has been dehydrated by the diuretic effects of lasix.

[TJ]

"

As long as ANY raceday medications are allowed, people will continue to try to beat the system. Morphine and synthetic morphines will make horses run faster than they want to, the pain killing effect is not the primary reason for use. It is hard for people to understand that a drug that actually would slow down a human, will make a horse run faster - but it does. Horses and humans react differently to different drugs. Lasix only makes these drugs harder to detect.

Respectfully disagree that stopping raceday meds will cease cheating. Also, Lasix actually helps horses from a health standpoint and I'd like to see whatever evidence you can source that it makes other drugs harder to find. They should regulate how a horse is trained, for humane reasons and the drugs would naturally go away, IMO.

Show me yours and I'll show you mine. "Lasix actually helps horses from a health standpoint" that is a pretty bold statement. There has never been a definitive study on lasix and its effects on EIPH. There have been some so-called studies to support lasix, such as the South African, but the controls were flawed and it would never pass muster as a scientific study. Likewise there are other studies (equally flawed Canadian) rejecting the benefits.

You are correct that stopping race day meds will not stop cheating - as long as there is any kind of competition there will be cheating. It will go a long way in stopping the hypocrisy. The idea that you will allow one performance enhancing drug while banning others is insane. Lasix HAS been proven to move a horse up anywhere from 1.3 to 2.4 lengths. The more Lasix, and the closer it is administered to the race, the more intense the alkalinization effect of Lasix = Mini Milkshake. Horses are unlike almost any other creature in the way that they process oxygen and red blood cells (racehorse fuel) the blood thickens 50% during all out exertion, their heart is unique in its capability to process the thicker blood, supercharged with red blood cells, that have been stored in the spleen waiting for that moment. Lasix interferes with that process, thinning the blood and dumping it into an ill prepared body that has been dehydrated by the diuretic effects of lasix.

Hi Cas,
I respect your take on lasix....but the report you cited as being flawed and unscientific (the S. African study)....which was published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association in July of 2009. was funded by the Jockey Club and Grayson Foundation and other prominent people in the business on the side of banning race day lasix. The African study didn't bring back the results they were looking for and they began to knock down the results and countering with other reports that were inclined to go their way. It's much like politics at this point...both sides make "their" sense of it and have the reports to prove it which are totally opposite pieces of information. Personally and fortunatley, in the years I've been involved, I formed my own opinions and I have found a happy medium in the use of lasix for the benefit of the racehorse in the prevention or limitation of IEPH. When I race I administer less than 1/3 of the legal limit of lasix and sometimes less according to how well I've been able to control that individual horses bleeding going into the race. That is because I am able to keep a horse from progressively becoming a worse bleeder than what he is naturally under full capacity respiration. That and the fact I've seen horses under the maximum legal limit of lasix react poorly and seem dull in the paddock. They carry that to the track with them and don't pick up their legs. In every report FOR, there is a report AGAINST the very same issue concerning lasix and its usefulness. I go by what I've seen work and stand by the use of lasix as a humane and therapeutic drug for the horse. I also have no problem if they ban the race day use tomorrow...as I never administered that much on race day to make a very big difference in the performance...and that is because I use it to prevent a horse from becoming an uncontrollable bleeder in morning works. This way I can limit the progressive deterioration of the horses respiratory and circulatory system under maximum performance pressure so the horse can race nearly without any sign of EIPH. If you take the time to scope your horse to see what's going on inside...in the beginning there will be some staining....if left alone it will reach near a category 1...if you take the necessary precautions after you see the first sign of low level bleeding (staining and cat. 1) you will be able to keep that horse at a low level that will allow him to continue to race, without ever getting past the point of that particular animal's naturally occurring bleeding threshold in their lungs. If you allow it to escalate by inaction and it reach's 2-4 levels (which affect race performance), scaring begins to develop in the lungs from these episodes and gets progressively worse each time you ignore it till the horse will bleed uncontrollably and rendered useless to his breed.
Concerning what you called "mini-milkshakes"....if it came anywhere near what an illegal milshake has on the performance of a horse...we would be getting a heck of a lot more TCO2 level suspensions/overages since almost all horses run on race day lasix here in America?? That statement makes no sense...just like politics...it's another talking point for those against race day lasix use. Might I add that bleeders have been around since the 18th century, so this isn't anything new to modern day racing or due to a weakening of todays breed....if so it started way back when. It occurs in horses that perform under extreme conditions. The great Eclipse for instance....in his sires second generation is one of the first known and documented bleeder's in racing, his name was originally Childers Bleeder...later sensibly changed to Bartlets Childers GB 1716. TJ