"I can confirm that Reverend Jackson is working with the jockeys to help them unionize," Jackson's chief of staff, John Mitchell, said through a RainbowPUSH spokesperson."
In my opinion this is not a good thing for owners or Jockeys. What do you all think?
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todays ... 1&subsec=1
Manley, Jackson to co-manage Jockeys' Guild
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
-
gowestyoungman
- Suckling
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:32 pm
- Contact:
Jockeys need help in securing insurance. I get it. They need someone who can sew peace, bring together two opposing parties. The Jackson/Manley team walks in... what's the first thing they do?
1) Ask for more money, larger percentage of purse money:
"At the end of the day, you get some roses, but someone else gets the money."
2) Establish an "Us vs. Them" mentality:
"I can confirm that Reverend Jackson is working with the jockeys to help them unionize"
What concerns me is not that it's Jackson, rather his IMMEDIATE divisiveness. Why does a man step in the door with such rhetoric (especially considering that the obvious reaction to him might be "what exactly does he know about this sport and what makes him qualified")?
Pardon me, but isn't this the same Guild that elected Gertmanian and hailed him as the new messiah? Or is this a question of RACE makes the pace?
1) Ask for more money, larger percentage of purse money:
"At the end of the day, you get some roses, but someone else gets the money."
2) Establish an "Us vs. Them" mentality:
"I can confirm that Reverend Jackson is working with the jockeys to help them unionize"
What concerns me is not that it's Jackson, rather his IMMEDIATE divisiveness. Why does a man step in the door with such rhetoric (especially considering that the obvious reaction to him might be "what exactly does he know about this sport and what makes him qualified")?
Pardon me, but isn't this the same Guild that elected Gertmanian and hailed him as the new messiah? Or is this a question of RACE makes the pace?
Frankly I like Jesse Jackson even if he can be a bit of a clown sometimes. I'd be more concerned about Manley who represented both Rodman and Karl Malone. Karl Malone say jockeys want better benefits b***h!
Anyways, I think this sort of thing happens when you've got a group of workers with limited education and without a clear plan or strong leadership. I mean it says they elected the Stevenson guy two months ago and the board just never certified it, WTF. They went for the "name" and frankly I'm not sure its going to work out so well. I think for them to actually get something done they are going to have to do it themselves and develop strong leadership from within instead of running to people outside the industry.
I'm not downplaying the role of jockeys and their sacrifices which are many, but they are an easy group to take advantage of just ask Dr. G. who's wipin his eyes with their $100 bills right about now.
Anyways, I think this sort of thing happens when you've got a group of workers with limited education and without a clear plan or strong leadership. I mean it says they elected the Stevenson guy two months ago and the board just never certified it, WTF. They went for the "name" and frankly I'm not sure its going to work out so well. I think for them to actually get something done they are going to have to do it themselves and develop strong leadership from within instead of running to people outside the industry.
I'm not downplaying the role of jockeys and their sacrifices which are many, but they are an easy group to take advantage of just ask Dr. G. who's wipin his eyes with their $100 bills right about now.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
I am sorry, but as an owner I have to go back to his statement: "At the end of the day, you get some roses, but someone else gets the money."
Hmmmm. How nice. Actually, if truth be told, the statement could read:
"At the end of the day, you get 10% of all purse money for about a minute of work (and can have a shot at that money 9 times a day), while the owner gets to pay all the bills, and pray for a horse that one day could break even, all the while paying the fees and costs associated with running the very same equine athlete you use to get paid by. You deserve insurance, which the owners should help pay, of course. And remember, if the horse is injured while performing your daily duties, you deserve to watch the owner pay the vet bills, layup, feed and care for said animal without a single responsibility. I say UNIONIZE!"
RACE it seems, makes the pace.
Hmmmm. How nice. Actually, if truth be told, the statement could read:
"At the end of the day, you get 10% of all purse money for about a minute of work (and can have a shot at that money 9 times a day), while the owner gets to pay all the bills, and pray for a horse that one day could break even, all the while paying the fees and costs associated with running the very same equine athlete you use to get paid by. You deserve insurance, which the owners should help pay, of course. And remember, if the horse is injured while performing your daily duties, you deserve to watch the owner pay the vet bills, layup, feed and care for said animal without a single responsibility. I say UNIONIZE!"
RACE it seems, makes the pace.
dray33,
These guys risk their lives for that minute and they have to trust that the trainer has not pumped the horse so full of drugs that it breaks down and they end up a vegetable for the rest of their lives and really I could give a rats hiney about the Pat Valenzuela's of the world. Its the guys at the smaller tracks that are left holding the bag while the richest jockeys in the country whine about coverage.
Frankly though where it all went wrong was several years ago riders had to contribute to an insurance fund according to how many mounts they had, a perfectly reasonable arrangement and then the top jocks and correct me if I'm wrong but that dufus Stevens was one of the key whiners among them, felt that they shouldn't have to contribute more to help supplement their less fortunate breathren just cause they got more mounts. Way to be giving guys
That plan was scrapped and jockeys were forced to pay high premiums and a lot of the jocks at smaller tracks said "Screw this noise." and quit. One rider told us dues were really insane as well.
Their leadership is a joke. Velasquez doesn't even want to lead the thing and one of the higher ups is a total moron who stole the wife of a rider who had recently been disabled
Its like government!
Do we as owners need to contribute? Probably, but by God everybody else in this country struggles to get adequate coverage and being independent contractors if the Guild doesn't get off their duff and do something themselves then they are SOL.
These guys risk their lives for that minute and they have to trust that the trainer has not pumped the horse so full of drugs that it breaks down and they end up a vegetable for the rest of their lives and really I could give a rats hiney about the Pat Valenzuela's of the world. Its the guys at the smaller tracks that are left holding the bag while the richest jockeys in the country whine about coverage.
Frankly though where it all went wrong was several years ago riders had to contribute to an insurance fund according to how many mounts they had, a perfectly reasonable arrangement and then the top jocks and correct me if I'm wrong but that dufus Stevens was one of the key whiners among them, felt that they shouldn't have to contribute more to help supplement their less fortunate breathren just cause they got more mounts. Way to be giving guys
That plan was scrapped and jockeys were forced to pay high premiums and a lot of the jocks at smaller tracks said "Screw this noise." and quit. One rider told us dues were really insane as well.
Their leadership is a joke. Velasquez doesn't even want to lead the thing and one of the higher ups is a total moron who stole the wife of a rider who had recently been disabled
Its like government!
Do we as owners need to contribute? Probably, but by God everybody else in this country struggles to get adequate coverage and being independent contractors if the Guild doesn't get off their duff and do something themselves then they are SOL.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
I think it is BAD for racing overall BUT where was/have Ogden Phipps/Will Farish/Cot Campbell/Sheik Mohammed etc. been on this issue? Many of these people have more business sense in their little finger than Jessie Jackson and Manley have combined. They could have stepped forward with real solutions but instead we get Jessie Jackson and his bomb throwing antics.
Brace yourself because you are about to hear rhetoric you are not going to like or agree with. Jackson has already refered to Jocks as being "enslaved" which is utter BULL$HIT. Jocks love their work and NO ONE forces them to take the risks they do... the same way no one forces a mountain climber to scale Everest. They do it because they love it despite the great risks involved. A Jock can refuse to ride or walk away at anytime. No one forces them to do anything and to even refer to such nonsense shows complete ignorance on Jackson's part(which is nothing new coming from him).
By the way does anyone know the whereabouts of Jessie's "lovechild"? Now there's an issue that needs addressing(children born out of wedlock).
Brace yourself because you are about to hear rhetoric you are not going to like or agree with. Jackson has already refered to Jocks as being "enslaved" which is utter BULL$HIT. Jocks love their work and NO ONE forces them to take the risks they do... the same way no one forces a mountain climber to scale Everest. They do it because they love it despite the great risks involved. A Jock can refuse to ride or walk away at anytime. No one forces them to do anything and to even refer to such nonsense shows complete ignorance on Jackson's part(which is nothing new coming from him).
By the way does anyone know the whereabouts of Jessie's "lovechild"? Now there's an issue that needs addressing(children born out of wedlock).
austique wrote:dray33,
These guys risk their lives for that minute and they have to trust that the trainer has not pumped the horse so full of drugs that it breaks down and they end up a vegetable for the rest of their lives and really I could give a rats hiney about the Pat Valenzuela's of the world. Its the guys at the smaller tracks that are left holding the bag while the richest jockeys in the country whine about coverage.
Absolutely... these guys deserve coverage. Of course, I would agree 1000%. I come from the camp that believes what they do is crucial for the business of horse racing. I want to see them covered. I would even help pay for it. But this is no way to start the conversation... the talk of being slaves to the owners who make all the money while they get "roses", no money for the effort. Do not misread me here... my reaction is to THAT, and not the fact that is a freakin' travesty that leadership in the past has done nothing to secure it.
To come in and claim jockeys need coverage is one thing. Ya got my vote. To walk in the door and claim they are indentured servants who are being taken advantage of, and need a larger percentage of the purse while owners are getting all the money is divisive, biased, inconsiderate the issues of owning a racehorse and dead WRONG, right off the bat. As big a fan of Jockeys as I am, thus far they have cost me about as much as they have made me, and that's being generous.
When you represent a group, by nature its a one sided view. The best of leaders take an approach of care and understanding... with an eye towards fixing critical issues, and care for who is going to help pay for theses solutions. I own 10 racehorses, and trust me, I am not swimming in winnings. Wish I were, but I am NOT. Don't show up on my doorstep and say: "PAY UP rich guy, your swimming in money made off the backs of the jockey community". Jackson's opening salvo in terms of rhetoric has been absolutely offensive to me as an owner, horrific.
Now pass the collection plate!!!! 
horsenuts wrote:I think it is BAD for racing overall BUT where was/have Ogden Phipps/Will Farish/Cot Campbell/Sheik Mohammed etc. been on this issue? Many of these people have more business sense in their little finger than Jessie Jackson and Manley have combined. They could have stepped forward with real solutions but instead we get Jessie Jackson and his bomb throwing antics.
They are out there supporting this business with real dollars, hard work and brilliant ideas. They help create the environment by which we all play, and guess what... it's cannot be the responsibility of these owners to fund the entire sport.
Jockey insurances, to me, is a STARTING POINT. They should never be allowed into the ring of battle without it PERIOD. Purse money, take out, and any means neccesary should fund it, including monies from the Jockey community directly (like it was supposed to be, remember?). I supplement my insurance costs, shouldn't they?
It's not about this, again I will say it. Here's a guy who knows NADDA about the sport, comes in after a 5 minute overview... and offends the very people who help PAY for the sport. You're right Austique, who gives a rat's ass about the Valasquez, Prados and Castellanos of the world. It's the guys at the small tracks. THEY NEED INSURANCE, and the GUILD has obviously *&%*%^* them. NOW after squandering the very resources they lack... they go running to Jackson, so that he could come in here and yell about Owners taking advantage of the poor, poor Jockeys who are "indentured servants"?
PUH-LEEZE.
Manley looks like a mensch by the way. He is forgoing a salary and loaning the Guild money to get out of debt. So he's got the good with the bad. I actually don't hate Jackson, but him in this situation is laughable, if it weren't so scary. When asked about why he got involved, he couldn't help bring race into the discussion: "He said his interest in jockeys is two-fold: He is intrigued by the history of black riders in the United States, and also because "in the evolution of the industry, jockeys were left behind. Of all the professional athletes who are artists that engage in high-risk activity, jockeys are the least protected."
That they are, thanks to the misdealings of the Guild, and the inability for Jockeys themselves to pick out decent leadership.
Race makes the pace it seems.
-
Monmouth Matt
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:14 pm
- Location: NJ
Dray,
You and I are in complete agreement. Jocks should have coverage. There are a few ways to help defray premiums...perhaps a small 50 enry fee per horse.
Jackson is an awful choice. I'm surprised after the previous thief ("dr. G") that the guild would again fall for flash and glitter and bullshit instead of a rock solid businessman. I forsee strikes and walkouts coming.
NTRA wonders why they have so much trouble attracting new owners.
You and I are in complete agreement. Jocks should have coverage. There are a few ways to help defray premiums...perhaps a small 50 enry fee per horse.
Jackson is an awful choice. I'm surprised after the previous thief ("dr. G") that the guild would again fall for flash and glitter and bullshit instead of a rock solid businessman. I forsee strikes and walkouts coming.
NTRA wonders why they have so much trouble attracting new owners.
And DOWN the stretch they come!
Hey Matt. I hope it does not get that crazy. But look at this... Finally, some thought out rhetoric that doesn't include the whole Jackson more money, gimme, gimme, gimme cresendo:
--------------------------- From Bloodhorse: ---------------------------
"The Guild was on the brink of financial ruin when Gertmenian was fired in November after allowing the Guild's health care coverage to lapse.
Among the key issues facing jockeys are safety, insurance, endorsements and an upward change in the scale of weights.
Manley, who resides in Los Angeles, also said Monday that he and Jackson are eager to work with the Guild.
"It's not about me, it's not about him," Manley said. "It's going to take a lot of people to make that change."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRAVO! There ya go Manley! Right to the heart of the issue. See how that's done. No devisiveness. No "Us against Them". No mention of "At the end of the day, you get some roses, but someone else gets the money." Good, positive forward thinking ideas about what is needed to help the Jockey community. Aaaaaaaahhhh, it's almost refreshing.
Now, in light of that, wasn't Jacksons approach incredibly... I don't know, juvenille, biased, maybe even nasty?
--------------------------- From Bloodhorse: ---------------------------
"The Guild was on the brink of financial ruin when Gertmenian was fired in November after allowing the Guild's health care coverage to lapse.
Among the key issues facing jockeys are safety, insurance, endorsements and an upward change in the scale of weights.
Manley, who resides in Los Angeles, also said Monday that he and Jackson are eager to work with the Guild.
"It's not about me, it's not about him," Manley said. "It's going to take a lot of people to make that change."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRAVO! There ya go Manley! Right to the heart of the issue. See how that's done. No devisiveness. No "Us against Them". No mention of "At the end of the day, you get some roses, but someone else gets the money." Good, positive forward thinking ideas about what is needed to help the Jockey community. Aaaaaaaahhhh, it's almost refreshing.
Now, in light of that, wasn't Jacksons approach incredibly... I don't know, juvenille, biased, maybe even nasty?
Dray, I was not nor am I asking Phipps/Farish/Shiekh Mohammed etc. for their money but rather their business savy and intellect to this ongoing problem that can be solved by several ways.. NONE of which involved bringing Jessie Jackson into horseracing with his henchman in tow(Manley) spouting their typical nonsense of "enslavement" when in fact Jockeys are free to ride or stay home... no one forces a Jockey to accept a mount on ANY horse as we all know. This type rhetoric(enslavement.. a few roses) is a complete lie.
The "solution" is not that difficult and could have been worked out long ago. Sevearl ways to deal with this issue should have been looked at i.e withhold 3-5% of total handle from each track for catastrophic insurance for not only riders but all backside personnel or tack on an additional $10-$20 even $30 per jock mount for coverage(I have and do own horses and while I may not like it I realize there is no free lunch and no rider or worker should be participating without catastrophic insurance involving worst case scenarios).
There are other options to consider as well i.e a "national plan" that encompasses ALL TB pari-mutuel tracks that covers all riders and backside participants(exercise riders/grooms/hotwalkers/trainers) money of which would come from a % of total national handle again 3-5%.
The "solution" is not that difficult and could have been worked out long ago. Sevearl ways to deal with this issue should have been looked at i.e withhold 3-5% of total handle from each track for catastrophic insurance for not only riders but all backside personnel or tack on an additional $10-$20 even $30 per jock mount for coverage(I have and do own horses and while I may not like it I realize there is no free lunch and no rider or worker should be participating without catastrophic insurance involving worst case scenarios).
There are other options to consider as well i.e a "national plan" that encompasses ALL TB pari-mutuel tracks that covers all riders and backside participants(exercise riders/grooms/hotwalkers/trainers) money of which would come from a % of total national handle again 3-5%.