JC fails genetics 101

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:05 am

Ba ha ha. Now we all know there is no such thing as a pinto TB. :wink:

Boomer has a 2005 filly and her owner applied for her registration. We already know that pinto or sabino are not accepted color choices for the JC so when her owner filled out the forms I told her roan IS an accepted color choice so I recommended she put bay roan as the fillys color. Know what she got back for papers?
Listed as GRAY :shock:

.
Owner protested she cannot be gray. Both parents are bay. Sire is bay sabino. Dam is rabicano bay........but both BAY. JC answer? She has 2 gray grandparents.
First the "gray" grandsire Bright White is not in fact gray. He is so sabino he appears white. But, since he looks white I can at least see how he LOOKS gray to the JC. (Though since he has 4 bay or chestnut grandparents it IS genetically impossible for him to actually BE gray.) Cerene does have a gray parent. But, regardless of if the grandparents are accurately gray or not.......2 bays cannot possibly produce a gray.
I contacted the JC and requested since it is gentically impossible for her to be gray they register her as bay roan. If that is out of the realm of possibility for some odd reason then please just register her as her correct base color of bay. We shall see how this goes :roll:

The "gray" filly in question...............
http://providencefarmpintos.com/admin/i ... arling.jpg

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:41 am

Some people are so stuck on stupid they start to infect those around them. Really, why is it so hard for the JC to pull their collective heads out of their butts and join the rest of the world in the new century?

the Ol'Line Rebel · Postby **the Ol'Line Rebel** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:49 am

I guess that would include getting rid of the "roan" classification. There is no "roan" in TB, and it is not gray.

Besides that they could open up to other types.

LSB · Postby **LSB** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:14 am

camohn, you know you shouldn't confuse the JC. That just makes them upset.

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:25 am

LSB wrote:camohn, you know you shouldn't confuse the JC. That just makes them upset.

You know, I'm waiting for the day they decide to cut almost ALL colours out and adopt a "Screw it, Your horse is red, his horse is black, her horse is white" attitude

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:39 am

Since Catch A Bird does seem to be the only one throwing what looks like true roans then no they probably should not get rid of it.........but 99.9% of the "roans" are not roan. Still.......roan is closer to the truth than gray!
Can't wait to see how the white fillys papers come back Probably gray! (O/o a bay sire and chestnut mare :wink:

). One person I talked to at the JC told me that they would accept white for her.....but then again when I went to e-mail this specific person I got the e-mail back as no longer a valid email address so I guess THEY are no longer there and who knows what will turn up :lol:

henthorn · Postby **henthorn** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:13 pm

This filly is definitely not gray or white, she's bay with a lot of white splashed in. See the reddish-brown coat and black mane and tail.

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:51 am

It sure would make sense for all the registries to go to a format that includes
Base coat, and modifiers

Bay Roan
Bay grey
Red Dun
And so on.

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:30 am

xfactor fan wrote:It sure would make sense for all the registries to go to a format that includes
Base coat, and modifiers

Bay Roan
Bay grey
Red Dun
And so on.

Well, there'd be no need for any of the duns/grullo since there is no dun factor in TBs, but the cremes need to be recognized properly. This registering palominos as chestnut/buckskins as bay is stupid.

And they need to drop the roan designation all together since there's no verified roan TB. Whatever Catch A Bird is, it's pretty clear he's not a true roan, and until his foals are verified, calling them roan is premature.

"Bay going grey" etc would be nice, but ultimately confusing to most laymen and few people (relatively speaking) REALLY seem to care what the base coat is unless they are breeding for colour. Grey is sufficient. Same reason you wouldn't register Arctic White as "bay" even though genetically that's what he is. White is sufficient in his case.

The problem is people seem to forget it's more than just the American Jockey Club who would need to be convinced to accept proper colours. You have to convince ALL the major stud books in the world.

Hey Camohn, have you (or anyone else) heard about the silver dapple gene being found in TBs yet? Someone showed me documentation once, but it was a printed page off a dead website with no picture so I'm inclined to ignore it since I've never been able to find another reference source.

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:08 am

henthorn wrote:This filly is definitely not gray or white, she's bay with a lot of white splashed in. See the reddish-brown coat and black mane and tail.

Nope. This filly is not white (she is most definitely bay based), but mine is....and I wonder what color HER papers will come back with now! :wink:

The white one (with 4 muddy socks!)
http://providencefarmpintos.com/admin/i ... ly2mos.jpg

I have not seen any silver dapple in TBs.......though if you see Cerene, the dam of this filly, in person she is so rabicano she looks silver. In pics she looks solid bay. You have to see her in person to see all the tiny white hairs scattered in her coat.

Here is Cerene......though "my bad".......I somehow remembered a dark tail and thought she was a bay, she is chestnut. At any rate it's not gray

http://www.equinenow.com/onlinestable/windspirits-25321

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:57 am

I recently sold a LOVELY bay roan TB filly. On her papers, she is noted as a bay and under markings it specifies "scattered white hairs throughout coat" which is a pretty apt description. The JC used to have "roan" as a color. I don't know when they struck that one and combined it with gray (as in gr/ro).

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:03 am

Why does this not surprise me ONE SINGLE BIT???

Please refer them to their OWN explanation for a grey foal which is that "at least one parent MUST be grey in order to produce a grey foal"

...sigh ... it must be something in the water in Kentucky ... hopefully it is not contagious ... :roll:

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:43 am

I recently sold a LOVELY bay roan TB filly. On her papers, she is noted as a bay and under markings it specifies "scattered white hairs throughout coat" which is a pretty apt description.

That would be accurate :wink:

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:15 am

Got somewhere. The latest is that they are" examining photographs to determine the proper color".

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:38 pm

camohn wrote:Got somewhere. The latest is that they are" examining photographs to determine the proper color".

Idiots.

You know, it's not like they don't require DNA testing to register. Really, how much more time/money would be involved in having them run a colour test with it. That way you send it all in and the only time they'd strain their brain is when it tests as "chestnut" even though it's extreme sabino.

What really cracks me up is they think they can tell colour from a photograph better than the person STANDING NEXT TO THE LIVE HORSE.

Idiots.