Training Methods and Priorities w/the horse?-

[Marli]

As many of you are aware, I am actively involved in the rescue and transitioning of thoroughbreds off the track. In the recent years you've seen some (those that have been here as long as myself), that have come from the sales or killpen suffering a variety of different injuries. Of course, on my end, I get to see the 'after-effects' - the results of the injuries sustained while racing and why their racing career have ended.

Many, many ottbs have pedigrees that on paper, one would imagine should've done well in their racing careers, but I suspect may have been 'mis-managed' by their owners/trainers. I do not want to discuss mis-management practices, I think it's safe to say that many of those that are involved in the racing industry utilize various protocols that they're accustomed to based on their past experiences. I never like to 'generalize' as we all know there are bad apples in every bunch. I like to focus on the positive as I know there are many that do desire to improve the racing industry.

What I'd like to know is how many of you that are actively involved in the racing industry place the horses welfare (physical/mental condition) as the priority above the call for the drive to earn money, no matter what condition the horse(s) may be in?

I know over the years based on the participation here on this forum have responded with heartfelt compassion against running horses that really should not be running. But I'm trying to gather a perception as to how many 'like-minded' individuals there are when it comes to the horse specifically as the priority and the train of thought that horses that are treated with their welfare in mind at the forefront can still be productive in their earnings on the track.

I look forward to a constructive discussion on this topic. And my thanks for your candid opinons and participation.

[Laurierace]

Unfortunately I think I am a huge minority in the race business which is why I have resigned myself to remaining a small operation with mostly my own horses. I never did buy the whole "the owner made me run the horse" arguement that many trainers like to give. No one makes me do anything that is not in the horse's best interest. I do know that there are many owners who do want you to run no matter what, I just do my best to weed those people out beforehand. On the flipside I think there are some trainers who attract owners because they know the trainer will do whatever it takes to make money.
I must admit that it is easier to stick to my morals and my ideas on animal welfare since my income is not counted upon to support the family. I can see how it might be different if it came down to run the horse even if it is sore vs. putting food on the table this month. I decided long ago that I would quit and get a job with a weekly paycheck before I got into that situation. Let's hope that day never comes, I have been the boss too long to handle having a boss!

[Denise]

I've stated time and again, here and on other forums, that we wouldn't be in the business if we put our own interests ahead of the health and welfare of our equine athletes. Some people say we're soft, mushy, they're just animals, there's always another horse you can buy, etc., to which we turn deaf ears.
We race our stock maybe 8-9 times a year. They get 3 months off in the winter, and they only run if they're 100% fit and sound. Period.
I know our model is quite different from a backside trainer's model (i.e., x amount of starts per stall expected per meet), but it was a model we liked and could live with to ensure we had happy, healthy horses.

[BenB]

Iam having always one in training, and that one get the time for proving her(him)self or not. The trainer is located at what we are saying the end
of the world (bush) and trains in the woods, having large paddocks about 8 acres a piece were all of the horses are in about 2 hours a day.
If a horse is not good enough to pay at least a part from the expenses, they,ll get another job.
But they are never trained hard, or whipped out in full as Iam determined
against it.
But uptill now the most are fillies, and they have a somewhat different attitude than colts or geldings.

[FancyHorse]

I gallop racehorses and also own a racehorse currently running. I have a couple trainers I do ride for, but one in paticular that I have been with for 1.5yrs, he also trains my horse. I am very close to all the horses and the trainer and his family as well. I ride all the horses, work them out, etc. I can only speak for his barn as caring for the horses is 100%. If a horse is sore, he will not even track until he is better. This may involve medication and/or time off. He doesn't like to use the vet very often, for all the vet wants to do is inject them. We have had 2 horses that over time developed chips in the knees and also a horse that came to us with chronic laminitis, therefore we found them homes at recuse/retirement places. They don't earn much money because they are cheap claimers, but the money they do earn, goes right back into the feeding and caring for them. For us, its more about the horses and the sport, not the money!

[BJ]

What I'd like to know is how many of you that are actively involved in the racing industry place the horses welfare (physical/mental condition) as the priority above the call for the drive to earn money, no matter what condition the horse(s) may be in?

I know over the years based on the participation here on this forum have responded with heartfelt compassion against running horses that really should not be running. But I'm trying to gather a perception as to how many 'like-minded' individuals there are when it comes to the horse specifically as the priority and the train of thought that horses that are treated with their welfare in mind at the forefront can still be productive in their earnings on the track.

First of all, it takes a bit of intelligence, honesty and integrity for anyone who trains horses, to actually care about the horse and NOT see it as something to use and abuse for a few bucks here and there. Get rid of the people lacking those 3 simple ingredients, and you will find the true horsemen, IMO.

1. Intelligence:

To be able to spot a horse's potential OR lack thereof;

2. Honesty:

With oneself and the owner as to the results of #1;

3. Integrity to NOT push the horse to do what it cannot or should not be doing, no matter how much is invested in the horse or who the owner is, AND Integrity to find it a second career, with people that have been thoroughly checked out and checked up on.

The great lack of those ingredients in trainers and owners are why the CHRB (California Horse Racing Board) and other such governing bodies exist. And THEY don't do nearly the job they should!

POSTSCRIPT:

There is one trainer, in particular...although I am sure there are many like him, who goes around the country buying up horses from "Mixed" and Horses of Racing age sales. He then takes them back to his barn, and tries to cash in and win national titles with them. When these horses don't perform, he calls the meatman. DIRECT!

That kind of individual is so lacking in integrity as to have NO SOUL! That this industry allows such individuals to operate among them, is at the very heart of what is wrong with TB Racing.

Marli...get rid of people like that in racing...you will have fewer rescues to worry about.

[wilf]

I did not enter this game because I hated horses but its amazing how many people out there in racing have no emotional ties to the animal at all. Anyone in racing who says that they always do the right thing by the horse is dreaming as we all make mistakes and carry that baggage around with us forever. As a trainer I have always tried to do whats best for them as far as finding another career, but despite your best efforts there are a few that disappeared off my radar and will always make me wonder if they are alright. I have raced horses aged 14years and retired 2 year olds as I saw fit , I see things that make me mad as hell where horses are raced well after the party was over and yet have been on the receiving end of abuse when running a horse in races 4 days apart when I knew it was a prudent choice. Its a tough game because the winners are often reviled and the losers are ridiculed, and a thick skin can be a plus. The animal characters are a yaried lot and the satisfaction gained when these creatures blossom under your care is priceless! I have wept for joy and sorrow over these maddening beasts but there is nothing like this game when things go right for once. I think the best compliment I ever had in racing was from an old vet of mine , now retired when he said that if he had a horse at the track ,then he would give it to me to train! I was stunned.!

[geowarrior]

Since I only have shares in horses and don't own them entirely I can't lay down the law as to what I want. However I knew I was on the right track when I got a health report saying 'Oriental Rose coughed once'. They kept an eye on her and sure enough she spiked a fever and developed mucous in her throat. They've postponed and postponed and finally the vet has given his ok. When I went to see the horses they looked happy, well cared for and their gaits were all smooth. They get scoped frequently, which the managing partner admits costs extra but gives them piece of mind. The managing partner and the trainers all seemed to care for the horses, and knew them all well as characters - even though they are 'behind the barn' trainers, as you call them. I can relate to what Wilf is saying about every horse having its comfort level in terms of running frequency. This outfit has a horse in which I am not a partner, which runs with a frequency that under normal circumstances I wouldn't be happy about, but she absolutely seems to thrive on it, I visited her too.

When my first horse Citi Smoke ran last week and came third, I heard that the jockey had said he bumped coming out of the gate so I expressed concern as to whether he was alright. Within half an hour I got a call from the managing partner giving me a complete update on his health - no bruising or swelling, a slight cut, and scoping had shown slight bleeding but a tremendous amount of dirt inside him which the vet felt had contributed to the bleeding (he had a rough run). I also went to see him for myself.

Health is the most important concern for me for my horses. It worries me what will happen when they get sold on, as I suppose they eventually will, although none of the ones I have shares in are intended to be claiming horses.

If it was all up to me I would be breeding to stallions like Devil His Due who raced a lot and raced drug free, and I'd be trying to build up soundness. I disapprove of Lasix. I think we should be trying to breed out the tendency to bleed, and a lot of the horses on Lasix don't need it for bleeding anyway but are at a disadvantage because it is a performance enhancer and everyone is on it. And that's my only beef is that all my horses are on Lasix before we really established whether they were bleeders or not.

Some of the partners were disappointed that Citi Smoke came third, but my view is that any day they come away from the track alive and not seriously injured is a good day.

[madelyn]

If it was all up to me I would be breeding to stallions like Devil His Due who raced a lot and raced drug free, and I'd be trying to build up soundness. I disapprove of Lasix. I think we should be trying to breed out the tendency to bleed, and a lot of the horses on Lasix don't need it for bleeding anyway but are at a disadvantage because it is a performance enhancer and everyone is on it. And that's my only beef is that all my horses are on Lasix before we really established whether they were bleeders or not.

Well said.. that is exactly my argument for supporting my horse, Rocking Trick, so much. He ran fast, raced a lot, and raced drug free. Retired sound. Besides, I think he might just be the new "polytrack" sire of the future...

I know a lot of trainers. A few are good horsemen. A few are day-raters. A few are private trainers and what the owner says goes. There are some A--holes on the backside. There are some folks back there I wouldn't trust to hold my coat. Most of the cruelties perpetrated on racing stock stem from ignorance.

[zinn21]

In general, you will find the bigger operations are more black and white when it comes to the welfare of the horse.

Just look at the trainers with horses that are experiencing catastrophic injuries or claim and run a few times then drop (sometimes immediately) or the horse never races again-those are the guys who do not error on the side of the horse's welfare.

It's funny to listen to all the racing analysts give such lavish praise to certain trainers because they have a high win percentage with first time starters or horses off the claim etc. Most of them play a numbers game with little regard for the horse.

Until the racing industry places more scrutiny to the detection of unsoundness or lameness prior to starting (the pre race vet check is a joke) a race, the outfits who choose to run placing the welfare of the horse first will remain at a disadvantage.

[BenB]

I just think that the play in europe is more equal in terms, just no enhacers no bute nothing, only some homeopathic 100% natural help.
Even in our country in down low quality is nothing legislated and just no.
So the play is more on the quality of the runners in itself, than having the best vets around.

[Marli]

Wow! I'm thankful for all these responses, they've been wonderful and very insightful. I think it's useful to get this kind of perspective and I especially agree with those that refrain from meds.

Keep them coming! Thank you!!

[Laurierace]

Marli, I too am glad you are getting some great responses. Truthfully though, how many people are going to put the fact that they could give a crap about the horse's welfare down in print? I am afraid you are only going to hear from the "good guys" on this one. Nice to know that you fellow "good guys" are out there though, keep up the good work!

[Marli]

I do understand that the question may not appeal to everyone actively involved in racing, but I am pleasantly surprised to see as many as we have accumulated in the responses.

A friend of mine emailed me, she trains/races thoroughbreds, and was interested in knowing if there are any other 'like-minded' individuals involved in the business that believe thier horses can be treated kindly and well taken care of (in respect to injuries/maturation/physical & mental condition), not pushed and still consistently make money on the track.

I just knew there were several here and I'm sure there's more. As I wanted to keep the topic constructive, the best is to be candid and honest without fear of prosecution if some methods/beliefs wain in the other direction.

Keep them coming - I'd like to see how many more there are! And my sincere thanks!

[geowarrior]

Madelyn

I was talking to Jagger, with whom I correspond frequently. You have often mentioned Rocking Trick, but I had no idea until Jagger mentioned it that Rocking Trick is a horse who has raced a lot drug free. I have this dream to breed soundness, longevity and health if I had the opportunity. He is exactly the type of horse I am looking for. I have no money to breed at the moment, but you can be sure that Rocking Trick will be on my list when I am finally able to realise my dream (I say when, because now that I got to be part owner of some wonderful horses, I realise that maybe some dreams aren't as far away as we think, if we reach out for them).

Marli

Yes, you will probably get responses from the people that care about horses, but at the same time, many of them have observed those who don't care, so you are getting useful information along those lines too. I do know a trainer who is a master at the claiming game, and he improves his horses, but one of the main ways that he improves them, as far as I can see, is that he just looks after them properly, and he seems to have an intuitive sense as to what they seem to like in terms of distance and surface.

One of his early purchases for our stable (although I am not a partner in this particular horse) was I think a dirt running mare that had last run in a $5000 claiming race. Now this mare, three years later, is a multiple stakes winning turf sprinter who holds several track records. She runs with what I would consider quite a high frequency, but I've seen her and she thrives on it, isn't sore, just loves to run, and is an iron horse. One of my horses is with this trainer and after winning his first outing by 10 lengths he came a poor fourth of four in his next race. The jockey said his tongue came out of the bit and he lost his air, which is true, but the connections didn't leave it at that, they went the extra mile, scoped him and discovered he also had pharyngitis. My point being that not all trainers that specialise in claims and train off the track don't care.