What would YOU do? Need investment advice/opinions

[Jimsocks]

Newbie here. Long time lurker, first time poster.
Considering investing into a thoroughbred venture. Lifetime dream. My question is, What’s the best way to go?

I have no delusions of grandeur. Love the sport and would like to participate at some level. Would like to be in for the long haul. Would also like to have a chance, regardless of how small, to catch “lightning in a bottle”. Don’t mind being very patient.

As I understand it, I have many options – including (in no particular order):

1) Claiming a horse
2) Joining a breeding partnership
3) Joining a claiming partnership
4) Joining a pinhooking partnership
5) Joining various other partnerships
6) Buying a mare/share
7) Buying a weanling or yearling
8) Buying through private sale

I'm leaning moderately towards a breeding partnership as it seems to be the best way to mitigate risk.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Pete]

Hi Jimsocks,

You list quite a few options and that leads me to believe that you remain uncertain about the best path for you to enter the sport. I have some time after the Preakness tonight and I'd be happy to discuss your situation and options and help you find the best direction for yourself. There will be no charge if you call.

Please wait until after the Preakness though.

Enjoy the race.

Regards,

Pete Siegel
(631) 692-4405

[Pete]

Hi Jimsocks,

There are more options than those you list such as buying stallion shares, pinhooking, pinhooking partnerships, etc.

One of the beautiful aspects of this sport is that you can have a real impact on your own franchise but it's important to know your own scope so that you select the best investment for yourself.

Regards,

Pete

[larrygene]

Jimsocks, I've done it all when it comes to TB racing. Find a track you like or want to run at. Look up the trainer stats on Equibase, under "meet statistics". Find a number of trainers that have a win % of 20% or more and in the money (ITM) of 50% or more. Ask a bunch of questions. Then take out your owners license and claim a horse for $15K or more. This will get you in the game and hopefully show you a fast ROI.

Then study, study, study!!! This is absolutely the greatest game in the world, bar none!!!!

Good Luck,
Larrygene

[ageecee]

Fastest way to make money is the claiming game. Claim a horse and run it back in 3-4 weeks.


With 50K i would claim (3) in the 10-15K range.

[Playwithfire]

Joining some kind of partnership is not a bad way to go when you are starting out as it not only mitigates your risk, but for a smaller initial cost/outlay you will learn the ropes so to speak. Try to be as active as possible and soak up as much info as possible. Take full advantage of the "privileges" that goes with that owners license, spend time on the back stretch and meet as speak to as many people as you can in the industry.

Learn who you can trust, that is an invaluable aspect of this game.

Have fun but treat your venture like a business.

Good Luck.

[TBLADY]

Jim...I need to ask. Where do you live? Is it in an area that you have serveal track ooptions? What $$$ type of a financial commitment can or will you be willing to make?

We are small time breeders...but big on fun. My saying around the house..."If we arent having fun...it aint worth doing!" Thats not to say this business is all about fun...it has its ups and its downs.

This yr with 5 mares we have struggled to get them all in foal. At the tune of $18,000 in day rates, one foal lost of the 2 I was expecting this season, and the other mare had a very rough delivery, requiring $1300.00 in
surgery to repair vaginal and rectal damage from delivery...it happens. The day we went to NY to see our new Colt and 3 weeks following when our first homebred made her first start at PIMLICO, we forgot all about the day rates, the clinic expenses, eveything. (until we arrived back in Ohio to the BILLS! UHG!)

But the Game as Larry said is a Ride an 1/2. My Husband was not a horse person when we met 9 yrs ago. HE IS NOW BROTHER! He gets more excited then I do when the new stallion directory comes in the mail. We took a trip to see our homebred filly at Fair Hill back in Feb...he was getting a little frustrated at the time and the money needed to get a youngester to their first race. Being new to this game it was hard for me (who has been in this business for 20+ yrs) to tell him...this takes time and money and you better be willing to lose them both if something goes wrong. So when arrived he got to see what kind of work goes into our little bundle of joy every single day!!!! He got to see what his money paid for and the staff the cares for her. At her first race he said...."This makes it all worth it...win or lose. She came from our back field to PIMLICO and held her own...I'll take that." BUT she also got hurt meaning her little trek to the hallowed grounds of PIMLICO cost us a few grand more in day rates, vet bills, time off. Would we change anything we have done with her...and do it differently? NOPE...none of it!

Our friend have all seen us spend VAST amounts of money. If a horse needs $380 in Adequin it gets it, if a mare needs anther month before we can get a ute infection under control and back to the breeding shed...she gets it. If our runners need time off...they get it. (the old saying...you can wait on them now, or they will make you wait later is very very true!) You have to be willing to accept losing money before you can make any...IF YOU MAKE ANY. Now that our friends have seen what we go through...lol I dont see too many buying broodmares...lol but they have all asked about buying runners!

I will say for the money we have invested in our mares, shipping to and from boarding barns and stallion farms, day rates, vet bills, maintaince on our farm making it safe for them and their foals when they return to us, our expenses with our truck and trailer, our vet, our feed bills and hay expenses (which was scarce this yr and very $$$) What we pay in stallion fees, then breaking and training at $60 a day ++++ expenses....YOUZA! You can buy one hell of a 2 yr old in training!! Or could have claimed a major horse with some class and have money left over.

I prefer to purchase racing stock privately as it allows me to have the horse vetted by my vet. it allows me to take my time in assesing the horse. My brother in law has just purchased his first claimer...shes had some time off and is being readied for a return to racing here soon...he has far less $$$$$$$$ invested then we do in our program but he wanted to have fun at the local track on a much lower level. He will still ahve the same bills and expenses...but his upfront costs are much less then ours. Its yet to be seen what type of return on his investment he will have. Either way he is looking forward to taking his family and his friend to the track to see HIS horse race! and honestly thats what its all about!

[Laurierace]

If you want to get into racing then breeding is clearly NOT the way to go. That won't get you anywhere near the track for a race for years, if ever. If you want to get into horse owning, that may be ok, but again, it may never get you anywhere near a track.
I vote claiming or forming your own claiming partnership with friends. Make sure you have a trainer you can trust who is also capable of helping you chose your claims since you have no experience with that.
Depending upon where you live you will need to decide if you want to get horses that fit your local track or get horses that race at a track with bigger purses somewhere else. Say for example you live by Penn National you might want to claim a $5000-$7500 horse, where if you live by Monmouth, you might want a $25,000 horse. You definitely don't want a $25,000 horse to run at Penn because even if the race does go you won't win any money relative to the horse's value.
There are lots of things to consider, but hopefully I gave you a few questions to answer to help point you in the right direction. Welcome aboard!

[Jimsocks]

Thanks everyone - I definitely appreciate all the input, and your time in replying....I'm really not solely interested in a "fast buck", I'm far more motivated by a long term game plan that could provide years of enjoyment. Claiming could work, but I'll wager the list of owners paying their way strictly at the claim box is a short one.

Again, no delusions of grandeur - I'd just like a fighting chance at not losing my shirt. With that said, if anyone has been lucky enough to start from scratch and enjoy success in the business (defined as staying out of the poor house ;)- I'd really like to hear your story.

In searching out opportunities around the net, I came across an example of a breeding partnership that sounds interesting. This is a "rich" one though (link below). The business model seems to be playing the "safety in numbers" card. Purchase 6-9 "quality mares", breed to appropriately priced stallions - all with an eye towards retrieving the initial investment after 2 years....

Again this is only a REPRESENTATIVE example...I don't mean to single Dapple out - it's just the one I found. I know I'm not considering all the pitfalls - but if anyone has insight to this type of arrangement, and questions that should be asked - I'd like to hear your feedback.
https://www.dapplebloodstock.com/breeding.aspx
Thanks,
Jim

[tbrace]

Racing is no doubt the most exciting part of the game. But, many, many people are breeders only. It is a great entry to the game.

Can you keep the mare/baby at your place or will you board it out? Either way will work.

My suggestion is to find a good bloodstock agent, (there are actually some good honest ones) and discuss a plan.

Do not go into this without a business plan and an advisor.

PM me or talk to others that you trust for some good names.

Incidently, I am not an agent.

You have made a good choice about the greatest game. Good luck to you.

[habitat]

Jimsocks,

Everything about Thoroughbreds and Thoroughbred Racing is a gamble and while some aspects look to be more of a sure thing, none are.

If you're looking to possibly make some money the "gold rush" strategy can be applied here as well, you will make more money selling picks and shovels than prospecting yourself.

If prospecting is what you want to do though, pick an area that will give you the most personal satisfaction win, lose, or draw and jump in.

[turf]

go to http://www.toconline.com/

they can send you lots of info on getting started and answer lots of your Q's

http://www.gaylevanleer.com/ in Ca.

http://www.bradleythoroughbreds.com/seasons.php in Ky.

these are 2 very good agents that do every thing from sales to breeding,partnerships,pinhooking ect

[CA Michael]

There is no more rewarding feeling in the horse business than breeding, racing and winning with your homebreds.

[Pete]

Hi Folks,

What should be evident is that Jimsocks hasn’t narrowed down the options, there’s no discernment and thus probably little if any practical understanding of the underlying business models that are mentioned. The question asked isn’t focused.

Jimsocks could benefit from the experience of many here but asking for ‘feedback’ by email on a public forum isn’t really helpful to someone who, if their intentions are genuine, really wants to understand the requirements, risks and rewards of several investment paths. We’re replying into a vacuum. They need mentoring that shouldn’t be attempted in a forum, it’s far too imprecise and time consuming and that’s not fair to those offering advice (us). Frankly, after Jimsocks pointed us in the direction that they’d like us to consider I get the feeling that they’re looking for approval or perhaps something else.

Jimsocks,
Your stated goal is to be in it for the long haul (I hear that from everyone) but you’re not able to narrow choices or ask appropriate questions so I’d say that you’re leaving yourself in the gate. My offer was genuine but also a test of your sincerity. I’m no longer available to be called but at least you put your ‘money’ back in your pocket. Good luck.

Regards,

Pete

[Jimsocks]

Pete - I appreciate that your offer was genuine. Please don't take my lack of response to you personally as any kind of disrespect intended towards you. In retrospect, since you took the time to pm me - I should have proactively declined your invitation, and not left you hanging. I apologize for that. I am simply the type who takes a deliberate approach and prefers to initiate my own business relationships. Again, no disrespect intended.

For the record, I've narrowed my focus to breeding partnerships.

Thanks to everyone for their input and links provided. Very appreciated...

Jim