Doc Jocoy??

[CA Michael]

That's a name I havent' seen for many years. Hope you post soon!

[docjocoy]

Yes, I'm new here, Doc Jocoy was the first horse I ever followed as a kid. I am lucky enough to be able to actually participate in racing now since I have enjoyed it from afar for so many years. Breeding and pedigrees have always facinated me, and since I have been away from it for awhile I am trying to learn as much as I can by reading and talking to people in a variety of different ways. California racing and breeding particularly is what interests me, since my horses are based there, and I grew up there. I have 2 broodmares, and a foal, and am doing research on prospective sires for the next matings.
Thanks for finding me, I have been skulking about reading just about every page on this forum, just needed a shove to jump in.

[CA Michael]

Welcome Doc! I remember your namesakes, both human and equine, as a kid too. Dr. Jock Jocoy was an excellent horseman who occasionally raced a few good horses, but I haven't heard a peep from him for decades. Im glad you took that handle.

Jump on in, the water's not that cold!

[FOS]

hi docjocoy...hi CA Michael

Welcome docjocoy.

Two Cal horsemen as you are...I'd like to take this opportunity to ask your opinions/thoughts etc, and what you're hearing from owners/trainers/officials/fans etc, about Del Mar's newly installed polytrack surface.

If nothing else...when I see Zayat and Baffert send the $4.6mil colt Maimonides to race (and win) at Saratoga...and I also see a 6 furlong G1 (at Del Mar) run in 1:11 and change...I can't help but ask...what's up with the polytrack, and what are people (especially those close to the situation) saying?

Why the defection, by Team Maimonides, from Del Mar's polytrack to Saratoga's dirt?

Is In Summation's 6f G1 win, at Del Mar, in 1:11 and change...the new 1:08 or 1:09 and change?

Best to you.

Respectfully

[Tairaterces]

Welcome Doc! I remember your namesakes, both human and equine, as a kid too. Dr. Jock Jocoy was an excellent horseman who occasionally raced a few good horses, but I haven't heard a peep from him for decades. Im glad you took that handle.

Jump on in, the water's not that cold!

Hi Michael,

I read Dr. Jocoy's autobiography, "Racehorse Doctor" a couple of years ago. It was originally copyrighted in 1995, but the book I have is a First Edition dated July 2001(when he was 75yo). What a great read. I highly recommend.

From his book.
Stakes horses bred by Jocoy Family:
Doc Jocoy, D'Artagnan, Kirrary, Pacific Bounty.

Stakes horses owned and raced by Jocoy Family:
Peggy's World, Jan Jessie, Queen Janine, Windy Kate.

Other Jocoy Family winners:
Katie's World, Winnie Mae, Ack Ack Attack, Saint Jock, Knight's Bridge, Chikara, Larry's Policy, Olympiad World, Fleet Boatswain, Johnnesburg.

Best,
Tairaterces

PS: Here are some bits of trivia.
Dr. Joc's dog Bouncer (a JR terrier) is buried in the infield at Del Mar with a very nice headstone.
His horse Peggy's World won the inaugural running of the 8.5f San Juan Bautista Handicap at Golden Gate Fields on June 7, 1969, in the style of Phar Lap using the outside rail. By the way, winning time was 1:42:4.

[docjocoy]

The slow times do not concern me. It is much like the incredibly fast times you will see at many of the southwest desert tracks, you can discount them. I do think that there wasn’t enough time spent studying this particular type of artificial surface before Del Mar opened. A couple of canters around the oval in the morning does not a study make, especially since Del Mar, and California in general, has such great temperature changes from morning to evening, unlike Great Britain or the East Coast.
I know some of the horses are coming back exhausted after their first outings over the track in the afternoon. Not all, but some. Some trainers have difficulty in changing the way they train. Some trainers will drug no matter what, and unless that is addressed there will still be breakdowns. I also think there is some sort of issue with the far turn, some horses seem to be flying out of there like they were on the end of a fly-rope. Even the ambulance looks like it is sliding.
I am hoping that there will be some serious tweaking of the surface. I think the poly surface is probably safer than the regular dirt, however both poly and dirt need to be maintained correctly. Perhaps $10 million put into their old dirt course might have improved it also, and certainly their turf course needs to be addressed. The meet was a bloodbath last year, and certainly this is an improvement.
I’m certainly no expert, but those are some observations.

[CA Michael]

Tairaterces, thanks for the walk down memory lane! Doc Jocoy was especially good at selecting well bred yearling fillies, buying them inexpensively, and developing them into stakes winners. Jan Jessie was relatively obscurely bred, but was an outstanding filly, setting a world record for five furlongs on turf as a 2yo in 1966! She still can be found in good pedigrees, including Straight Man. I hope Doc is still around.

KAL,

It's simply too early to draw any conclusions about artificial surfaces in CA, but the data compiled by the CHRB proves that they perform light years better than the dirt tracks they replaced in preventing breakdowns. As Doc Jocoy stated, in 2006 Del Mar and Hollywood Park (spring meet) produced rampant breakdowns. For example, during Del Mar's 42 day meet, 20 horses were euthanized as a direct result of injuries on the dirt track. No horses have died from injuries on its new polytrack (although four have perished on the old turf course). From January 1 through mid-April, no horses broke down on Hollywood Park's new cushion track, compared to dozens in 2006. Four horses did break down in the early part of its spring meet this year, but they had been running recently on Santa Anita's dirt track (now being replaced by polytrack).

Artificial tracks were mandated by the CHRB in direct response to the incredible loss of life and investment on conventional surfaces. In a perfect world, more research would have been conducted on them before their installation. But, given the circumstances, I think the mandate was a wise move, even though hiccups are occuring in this early phase of the learning curve.

As far as the times go, most horsemen agree that creating a safe racing surface is more important than creating good advertising copy. The slower times reflect the effort to save lives, not the real quality of the animals. If Baffert, et al, want to see fast times associated with their animals, they can easily take them to Turf Paradise!

Bottom line: dozens of lives and millions of dollars have already been saved by artificial tracks here.

[FOS]

hi docjocoy...hi CA Michael

docjocoy...thanks for sharing your thoughts/opinions etc re polytrack at Del Mar.

From January 1 through mid-April, no horses broke down on Hollywood Park's new cushion track, compared to dozens in 2006. Four horses did break down in the early part of its spring meet this year, but they had been running recently on Santa Anita's dirt track (now being replaced by polytrack).

Isn't Santa Anita using Cushion Track?

Respectfully

[Rokeby Forever]

It's simply too early to draw any conclusions about artificial surfaces in CA, but the data compiled by the CHRB proves that they perform light years better than the dirt tracks they replaced in preventing breakdowns.

At a cost of $9 Million per surface, how would it be in the CHRB's best interest to report if the breakdown rate were the same as last year? Are morning injuries taken into account, or only race breakdowns? I find it odd that the CHRB says nothing about morning safety and breakdown ratios...why is that?

Del Mar is NOT running fields as big on the on the Poly as it did on dirt in years past. Might that have something to do with skewing the percentages? I remember reading that Hollywood had short fields because connections waited to race at Del Mar. Where are they?

How many sore horses aren't passing the state vets this year as opposed to years past? Are the vets not allowing as many sore horses to race this year? The CHRB hasn't said one way or the other...why not?

And, just for the record: Saratoga's main track has not had a single race fatality in 2007. No wood chips, no chopped up carpeting, no wax, no shredded garden hoses and cables....

I always give Michael CA credit where his credit is due...but he avoids answering these questions. There must be a reason.

[CA Michael]

Since the start of racing on July 18, Del Mar’s Polytrack safety record through Thursday has been perfect. In 2006 through the first 20 days of the meet, nine horses suffered catastrophic injury on its dirt main track either in afternoon racing or morning workouts and had to be humanely euthanized. This year through the same time frame not a single horse has been lost either racing or training on the engineered surface that consists of sand, rubber, carpet fibers and wax.

California's Equine Medical Director, Dr. Rich Arthur, has been on site and closely monitoring the Polytrack situation at Del Mar.

"I'm very pleased with what we’ve seen so far," Dr. Arthur said. "I've spoken to many of my veterinarian colleagues on the backstretch and most of them are cautiously optimistic. We are still early in this process, but so far the results are very encouraging. I'll give you an example: right now if you want to have an X-ray taken of your horse at the hospital on the backstretch you can have it done today. Before it might take you two or three days to get in. The injuries aren’t there now, and that’s a good thing. We are protecting our horses and riders and anything we can do in that regard is a good thing."

The track’s riders have registered a positive vote for the new surface, too, virtually to a man.

"I think it's great," said veteran David Flores. "The times are slower, sure, but the horses are going to last longer because of it. The bottom line is it is safer. What more could you want?"

Hall of Fame rider Mike Smith echoed his comments: "I love the safety of it. We've cut way down on catastrophic injuries. You’re still going to get some lesser injuries; these are athletes performing at a high level and you can’t avoid injuries. But this track has taken the concussion and jar out of it and the horses are better for it. Could it be tighter and faster? Maybe so. I think that will come as we go along."

Smith said he believed all the other riders also appreciated the new surface. "You don’t see any riders going down. Period. That tells you all you need to know as to whether or not the riders like it."

Besides the paramount safety factor, Polytrack has proven positive on several other fronts. Racing itself has been more competitive with closer finishes and fewer lengths spreading out the fields. In an ongoing study done by the industry's statistical keeper, Equibase, Del Mar’s finishes for the just-concluded third week of the meet showed fields more than 25% closer together at the finish (16.83 lengths apart, as opposed to 22.65 lengths in 2006) for all Polytrack races. And after a slow start when many horsemen took a wait-and-see attitude, average field size has started to increase to the point where it now is approaching last year’s number of 8.6 per race through 20 days. Whereas the field-size number was as low as 8.1 at the current meet, it now has risen to 8.4 per race.

"Our horsemen are starting to respond positively to Polytrack," vice president for racing Tom Robbins stated. "Understandably, they were a bit hesitant to begin the meet; they wanted time to train on the track and see how their horses handled it.

"Now our work tabs are running well ahead of last year and just in the last few days our entries have picked up, too. I think you’re going to see our average field size go ahead of the 2006 numbers shortly."

In 28 days of training thus far at the meet, 3,915 horses – an average of 140 per day – have worked on the Polytrack. Last year to this point there were 29 days of training and the total was 3,554 workers on the dirt track for a daily average of 122.

One of the residual advantages of Polytrack has been an expansion of the track's training hours each morning. Previously, the dirt track required three 30-minute breaks to smooth and condition the surface during the 4:30-to-10 a.m. training period. Under the Polytrack arrangement, only one break is necessary during the same time frame, allowing for an additional hour of training each day, which is proving to be a marked advantage in thinning the traffic flow on the busiest racetrack in California.

Race times have slowed on the Polytrack roughly an average of two seconds per race in sprints and three seconds in two-turn contests. The Equibase study for the end of the track’s third racing week showed an average time for five and one-half furlongs of 1:06.90 as compared to last year’s 1:04.85, while the average time for six furlongs has increased from 1:11.41 to 1:13.24. In route races the average time for a mile last year was 1:38.57 and that has gone to 1:41.61 on the Polytrack. The mile and one-sixteenth times have gone from an average of 1:45.12 in 2006 to 1:48.29 this season.

The Polytrack installation has provided yet another advantage in that it needs no water to maintain its surface. In previous years the dirt track required an average of 75,000 gallons of water a day to bind its elements together for maximum safety. The track’s maintenance crews have not used one drop of water on Polytrack and expect to realize a savings of more than 3-million gallons of water by the time the meet ends.

“There’s no doubt that we took a chance installing Polytrack and pushing for engineered surfaces throughout the state,” said Del Mar Thoroughbred Club’s executive vice president, Craig Fravel, the man who walked point for the track on the many issues and economic challenges that surrounded the radical change in the resort track’s racing surface. “But I’m glad we did and I just wish we could have done it sooner. I believe racing here, as well as in the state, is better for it. And I think racing throughout the country is watching and seeing that it is possible to make our sport safer and better for our horses, which is the bottom line for all of us.”


--DMR press release 8/10/07

[Rokeby Forever]

Michael CA: I'm not arguing with anything written in that press release. I'm asking (again):

Del Mar is NOT running fields as big on the on the Poly as it did on dirt in years past. Might that have something to do with skewing the percentages?

How many sore horses aren't passing the state vets this year as opposed to years past? Are the vets not allowing as many sore horses to race this year? The CHRB hasn't said one way or the other...why not?

"I'm very pleased with what we’ve seen so far," Dr. Arthur said. "I've spoken to many of my veterinarian colleagues on the backstretch and most of them are cautiously optimistic. We are still early in this process, but so far the results are very encouraging. I'll give you an example: right now if you want to have an X-ray taken of your horse at the hospital on the backstretch you can have it done today. Before it might take you two or three days to get in.

What does the ability to take X-rays have to do with Polytrack?

[turf]

Michael CA: I'm not arguing with anything written in that press release. I'm asking (again):

Del Mar is NOT running fields as big on the on the Poly as it did on dirt in years past. Might that have something to do with skewing the percentages?

How many sore horses aren't passing the state vets this year as opposed to years past? Are the vets not allowing as many sore horses to race this year? The CHRB hasn't said one way or the other...why not?

"I'm very pleased with what we’ve seen so far," Dr. Arthur said. "I've spoken to many of my veterinarian colleagues on the backstretch and most of them are cautiously optimistic. We are still early in this process, but so far the results are very encouraging. I'll give you an example: right now if you want to have an X-ray taken of your horse at the hospital on the backstretch you can have it done today. Before it might take you two or three days to get in.

What does the ability to take X-rays have to do with Polytrack?

in years past so many horses were sore that the xray appointments were booked for up to 3 days in advance this year you can get a horse in the day you need to xray

[Rokeby Forever]

in years past so many horses were sore that the xray appointments were booked for up to 3 days in advance this year you can get a horse in the day you need to xray

Why would a horse need to be X-rayed at Del Mar in 2007? I thought once the dirt was removed, all would be right with the world. Apparently not, huh?

[CA Michael]

DocJocoy,

As you have probably gathered in your few days here, there is no minimum IQ requirement to post in this forum. Fortunately, those who wouldn't qualify if there were such a standard tend to run in packs here.

[docjocoy]

Incredible...