louisiana stud fees
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sulphurfire
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louisiana stud fees
I live in Louisiana and on the sires list here the stud fees range from around 1,000 to 3,500 on averrage on another list they were talking about price being relative to quailty and some of the posts were quite critical of the people who bred their horses to these lower stud fees. My question is this I was always told that to choose a stalllion you look at how his progeny have performed at the sales and at the racetrack, isn't that the correct way of doing it? Here in Louisiana there is a sire called Leestown who I've been watching and his foals do ok at the sales and in his first crop he's already had 3 stakes winnners of over 100,000 and his stud fee is only 3,000 wouldn'y it be better to breed to a horse like him than to try for a foal from (don't flame me on this,please) say Storm Cat(not a bad stud just overpriced in my opinion)? To me breeding is relevant to the bottom dollar that the progeney brings at the sales. Or have I missed something here
At least so far, most Louisiana-breds don't sell for much, thus the reason most state studs are reasonably-priced. Most are breed-to-race for regional tracks. Such major commercial sires as Storm Cat are high-priced for the "price is no consideration" crowd, and the buyers know that any son might be syndicated as a stallion and any mare may be productive and/or sell well even internationally.
Rocking H
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sulphurfire
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thanks for comment
Yes I do realize about the regional status on breeding fees and sale costs. The reason I had posted this earlier is that I saw on another message board a lady get flamed because she was breeding her mare to a horse that was at the lower end of the scale as far as breeding costs are concerned. Some of the posts we really nasty and told her that they wouldn't consider breeding to a stallion that was under 10,000 and it just irked me that they criticized her so harshly.
I suspect you would get a similar reaction from some people if you advocated breeding a mare with a 32/6/4/2 record and $34,133 in winnings to a FL bred stallion with a 12/8/2/0 & $189,564 in winnings.
They would also probably scuf at breeding to a stallion with $112k in winnings and standing in FL for a modist fee.
Look up Seattle Slew and Mr P
griff
They would also probably scuf at breeding to a stallion with $112k in winnings and standing in FL for a modist fee.
Look up Seattle Slew and Mr P
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
Sulphurfire, one of my Oklahoma breeder friends I would consider an excellent judge of pedigree is John Richter. He owns and bred millionaire Bien Nicole and many other stakes winners over the years. He breeds to race his horses and ignores public opinion, since the results speak for themselves, and commercial appeal is not a consideration.
When he retired his mare after the Breeders Cup in 2003, I eagerly asked him who he would breed her to. She would have been received gladly into any stallion's court in the world. He picked Bernstein, at that time an unknown $7500 stud fee son of Storm Cat, hidden away at a not-well-marketed farm in KY.
If a breeder wants to send his mare to a relatively low- or high-priced stud and has good reasons, who says the opinions of others are better? His mare, his money, his decision. Hopefully he has enough knowledge and judgment to go along with making his choice.
When he retired his mare after the Breeders Cup in 2003, I eagerly asked him who he would breed her to. She would have been received gladly into any stallion's court in the world. He picked Bernstein, at that time an unknown $7500 stud fee son of Storm Cat, hidden away at a not-well-marketed farm in KY.
If a breeder wants to send his mare to a relatively low- or high-priced stud and has good reasons, who says the opinions of others are better? His mare, his money, his decision. Hopefully he has enough knowledge and judgment to go along with making his choice.
Rocking H
Zialand,
He throws a lot of bad runners compared to other sires-what i mean he throws runners that will break there maiden and then go on to break NW-2 and thats about it. Ive seen a lot of his runners run at the bottom level more than i would like.
I think for 3-4K there are better sires than Leestown. Dont forget Afternoon Delittes now stands in Louisianaalso Time Bandit stands here too.
He throws a lot of bad runners compared to other sires-what i mean he throws runners that will break there maiden and then go on to break NW-2 and thats about it. Ive seen a lot of his runners run at the bottom level more than i would like.
I think for 3-4K there are better sires than Leestown. Dont forget Afternoon Delittes now stands in Louisianaalso Time Bandit stands here too.
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emmad
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I can't say anything about the stallions in question as don't live in US (though yes I know about Storm Cat ).
We bred for the first time last year. Our mare has a record of 34 Starts, 2 Wins, 4 Places, 7 Shows and was listed placed. We raced her ourselves and were breeding to sell if a colt and race if a filly. (her name is Cryin'n The Chapel). We do not have alot of money so had a price range of $3 - $5k that we had to work with. CITC did best over 1200m and we were looking for a stally to complement her and one that had correct legs as she is slightly offset in front.
We ended up going to Sudurka an australian sprinter standing in NZ. We took a gamble as he has questionable fertility so was standing at a reduced fee (dual G1 winner) or we couldn't have afforded him.
To my partners delight (as we can race it) we got a filly.
If we our filly was a colt we would have expected to get about $15 - $20k as a yearling possibly more as there are not many of his progeny around. There are a large number of small breeders in NZ which have to breed within a budget so price can be a big consideration in a smallish pool of stallions.
).
We bred for the first time last year. Our mare has a record of 34 Starts, 2 Wins, 4 Places, 7 Shows and was listed placed. We raced her ourselves and were breeding to sell if a colt and race if a filly. (her name is Cryin'n The Chapel). We do not have alot of money so had a price range of $3 - $5k that we had to work with. CITC did best over 1200m and we were looking for a stally to complement her and one that had correct legs as she is slightly offset in front.
We ended up going to Sudurka an australian sprinter standing in NZ. We took a gamble as he has questionable fertility so was standing at a reduced fee (dual G1 winner) or we couldn't have afforded him.
To my partners delight (as we can race it) we got a filly.
If we our filly was a colt we would have expected to get about $15 - $20k as a yearling possibly more as there are not many of his progeny around. There are a large number of small breeders in NZ which have to breed within a budget so price can be a big consideration in a smallish pool of stallions.
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sulphurfire
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RACE AND (STAKES) RECORD
Age Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Earnings
2 11 2 3(1) 1(1) $105,720
3 12 4(2) 2(1) 0 197,662
4 2 0 0 0 2,800
5 7 0 0 1 15,985
32 6(2) 5(2) 2(1) $322,167
At 2, WONan allowance race at Keeneland (7 fur., equal top
weight of 122 lbs., defeating St. Cloud, Truman C., Pilot
Rock, etc.), a maiden special weight race at Churchill
Downs (5 fur., defeating Getyourpantsdirty, North Salem,
Danzatore Flag, etc.), 2nd Sequoia S. at Ellis
Park (6 fur., to Direct Hit, defeating Cliffty Falls, Mountain
Lion, etc.), 3rd Tremont S.-G3 at Belmont Park
(5 1/2 fur., to Kelly Kip, Say Florida Sandy, defeating
Rapid Robyn, etc.).
At 3, WON Leonard Richards S.-L at Delaware Park (1
1/16 mi., defeating Universe, Bleu Madura, Gold Book,
etc.), Bob Jackson Memorial S. at Delaware Park (1
1/16 mi., defeating Polish Dana, Valid Direction, Gold
Book, etc.), an allowance race at Keeneland (7 fur., defeating
Boxcar Billy, Brassy and Sunny, Open Up, etc.),
an allowance race at Monmouth Park (1 1/16 mi., defeating
Going Gray, Out to Win, Checkpasser, etc.), 2nd
Long Branch S.-L at Monmouth Park (1 1/16 mi., to
Jules, defeating Capture the Gold, Frisk Me Now).
STATISTICAL SUMMARY
(Through October 28, 2004)
2 crops Lifetime Lifetime 2yo
Foals of racing age 128 128
Starters (/Fls) 66(52%) 51(40%)
Winners (/Str) 34(52%) 20(39%)
Total Starts 444 181
Total Wins (/Starts) 48(11%) 25(14%)
Total Earnings $1,023,117 $534,445
Avg. Earnings (/Str) $15,502 $10,479
Avg. Earnings (/Start) $2,304 $2,953
Stakes Wnrs (/Str) 3(5%) 2(4%)
Stakes Horses (/Str) 7(11%) 6(12%)
Avg. Earnings Index 0.75 1.00
Comparable Index 0.86
2004 Statistics
Starters 63
Winners (/Str) 24(38%)
Total Starts 327
Total Wins (/Starts) 33(10%)
Total Earnings $696,175
Avg. Earnings (/Str) $11,050
Avg. Earnings (/Start) $2,129
Stakes Wnrs (/Str) 1(2%)
Just some of the stats on Leestown. One of the things I like about his breeding is the he is out of the El Gran Senor mare Bright Candles.
Agecee do you think it could be the tracks these babies are running at? I know that Delta Downs is a short track and the surface isn't really that good.
Age Starts 1st 2nd 3rd Earnings
2 11 2 3(1) 1(1) $105,720
3 12 4(2) 2(1) 0 197,662
4 2 0 0 0 2,800
5 7 0 0 1 15,985
32 6(2) 5(2) 2(1) $322,167
At 2, WONan allowance race at Keeneland (7 fur., equal top
weight of 122 lbs., defeating St. Cloud, Truman C., Pilot
Rock, etc.), a maiden special weight race at Churchill
Downs (5 fur., defeating Getyourpantsdirty, North Salem,
Danzatore Flag, etc.), 2nd Sequoia S. at Ellis
Park (6 fur., to Direct Hit, defeating Cliffty Falls, Mountain
Lion, etc.), 3rd Tremont S.-G3 at Belmont Park
(5 1/2 fur., to Kelly Kip, Say Florida Sandy, defeating
Rapid Robyn, etc.).
At 3, WON Leonard Richards S.-L at Delaware Park (1
1/16 mi., defeating Universe, Bleu Madura, Gold Book,
etc.), Bob Jackson Memorial S. at Delaware Park (1
1/16 mi., defeating Polish Dana, Valid Direction, Gold
Book, etc.), an allowance race at Keeneland (7 fur., defeating
Boxcar Billy, Brassy and Sunny, Open Up, etc.),
an allowance race at Monmouth Park (1 1/16 mi., defeating
Going Gray, Out to Win, Checkpasser, etc.), 2nd
Long Branch S.-L at Monmouth Park (1 1/16 mi., to
Jules, defeating Capture the Gold, Frisk Me Now).
STATISTICAL SUMMARY
(Through October 28, 2004)
2 crops Lifetime Lifetime 2yo
Foals of racing age 128 128
Starters (/Fls) 66(52%) 51(40%)
Winners (/Str) 34(52%) 20(39%)
Total Starts 444 181
Total Wins (/Starts) 48(11%) 25(14%)
Total Earnings $1,023,117 $534,445
Avg. Earnings (/Str) $15,502 $10,479
Avg. Earnings (/Start) $2,304 $2,953
Stakes Wnrs (/Str) 3(5%) 2(4%)
Stakes Horses (/Str) 7(11%) 6(12%)
Avg. Earnings Index 0.75 1.00
Comparable Index 0.86
2004 Statistics
Starters 63
Winners (/Str) 24(38%)
Total Starts 327
Total Wins (/Starts) 33(10%)
Total Earnings $696,175
Avg. Earnings (/Str) $11,050
Avg. Earnings (/Start) $2,129
Stakes Wnrs (/Str) 1(2%)
Just some of the stats on Leestown. One of the things I like about his breeding is the he is out of the El Gran Senor mare Bright Candles.
Agecee do you think it could be the tracks these babies are running at? I know that Delta Downs is a short track and the surface isn't really that good.