NY vs. PA

[griff]

How does the NYBRED program comparte with the PABRED program??

griff

[KBEquine]

Was kinda hoping someone would reply - I know the PA program pretty well, but had a mare we were kicking around breeding in/for a NY-bred.

Can anyone help Griff & me?

[ruaff]

I feel like we have to wait to see how the PA program evolves. NY writes restricted MSW and at least 1st level allowance races. I (for better or worse) have not picked up a condition book for Philly or Penn in quite some time - are they writing these races? I know they "close" races after 8 PA breds enter.
I like the idea of having those restricted races that limit the competition and still allow breeders and stallion owners to earn awards. I don't think owners earn awards above the purse in restricted races in NY (I could be WAY off base there - God forbid I look at the website). From some discussions with those on the PHBA board a couple months ago- it seemed to me there was a divide on how to proceed - but in PA we could be looking at having to almost always run against open company to earn awards - and I DO NOT think that is the best way to build the complete industry within the state.

[griff]

What is the NY web site that explains their NYBRED program?

I race at Chrales Town and they must write at least two WVBRED Only races per meet. Those races are not always filled but they are offered. I guess I just assumed PA would do the same.

We have a mare in-foal to Not For Love that I would like to foal in WV [big fish, little pond], while one partner wants to foal in PA and another thinks we should foal in NY.

griff

[CurrentlyRed]

Try http://www.nybreds.com/ for the NYbred rules - scroll down; look at the links on the left.

I understand PA will begin writing some state restricted races & are also doing some PA-sired races. Ruaff is right. It is difficult to compare a mature program like NY with a newbie like PA.

[Pete]

Hi Griff,

I would consult the NY and PA bred associations for the most current rules.
PA:
http://www.pabred.com/Brochure/p1.html

NY:
http://www.nybreds.com/frames/FS_incentives.html

Breeder Awards
PA:
Limited to races run in PA.
Paid based on purse earnings for horses finishing 1st to 3rd.
20% for horses sired by out-of-state stallions.
30% for horses sired by PA stallions (in the year of conception).

NY:
Limited to races run in NY
Paid based on purse earnings for horses finishing 1st to 4th.
10% for horses sired by out-of-state stallions.
20% for horses sired by NY stallions (in the year of conception).
Awards limited to $10,000 per race.

Owner Awards
PA:
Limited to races run in PA.
Paid based on purse earnings for horses finishing 1st to 3rd.
Historically has fluctuated between 20% to 40% (has changed in the same year several times).
10% award on specific stakes races
Awards paid (immediately) with purse earnings.
Breeder and stallion awards paid on most owner awards.

NY:
Limited to races run in NY
Paid based on purse earnings for horses finishing 1st to 4th.
10% for horses sired by out-of-state stallions.
20% for horses sired by NY stallions (in the year of conception).
Awards limited to $20,000 per race.

Stallion Awards:
PA:
Limited to PA registered stallions.
10% of the eligible (as above) purse earnings.

NY:
Limited to NY registered stallions.
7% of the eligible (as above) purse earnings.

Specific benefits by state:
PA:
Pays most owners awards with race purse (immediate)
-Owners awards are thus counted as part of the horses' earnings
-Breeder and stallion awards are paid on purse earnings AND owner awards.
PA breds have preference in many races

NY:
45 restricted stakes races with aggregate purses of @$4,000,000 carded annually for state breds.
@900 restricted Maiden, Alwc 1X, Alwc 2X races carded annually for state breds.
-Winning restricted races doesn't affect open conditions so (in effect) NY Breds have 2 sets of conditions.

Hope his helps,

Pete

[griff]

Pete

Thanks for the great summary and the web site addresses. We should be able to make our decision with all this data..

I suspect the jury is still out on PABRED Only races but I did find a race in the Penn National condition book for PABREDs Only

Thanks again

griff

[Pete]

Hi Griff,

Glad it was of assistence.

I didn't project what the value of the state programs would be in the future and I'd think that should be a major part of your decision making process.

PA is on a fast track to realizing the full potential of their slots program while NY is continuing a poor history of political footballing. Hard to say what the impact of Eliot Spitzer's resignation will have.

I think the number of PA breds will be increasing dramatially (including this year). While that makes greater competition it also allows PA to run more restricte races for PA breds including Alwc 1X and perhaps Alwc 2X.

PA owner awards are far better than NY. Paid immediately with the purse and counted as regular earnings but most important is that breeder (stallion) awards are paid on the Owner awards, thus making the effective Breeder Award rate (in comparison to NY) 25% - 40%.

Regards,

Pete

[runfast]

pete

[Pete]

Hi Runfast,

I'm not sure of what you mean. Are you looking to purchase yearlings now that you want to sell in the Preferred Sale?

Pete