Red Bag Foal

[Patuxet]

Has anyone else had a red bag foal which at first couldn't stand up but in all other respects seemed OK? Mine was able to stand (with help) within 15 hours and nurse and within 24 hours she could get on her feet with repeated efforts. Where does it go from here?

Thank you.

[Gerry]

Leecoo had a red bag filly in 2001 so my memory is alittle hazy but your filly will get everything working and be fine within the next few days if she is like mine was. Slow at first, once she was able to get up after a few days there was no holding her back.

[Mood Swings]

Hopefully she will continue to improve We had one earlier in the year and she too couldn't stand unassisted for the first night. She was given plasma and that seemed to really help. She recovered fully. I had one of my own a few years ago and she had the opposite problem - she wouldn't lay down. I had to lay her down and then restrain her so that she couldn't get back up for the first 36 hours. Within a couple of days her head tilt, stall walking and reluctance to lay down all improved. She went on to compete successfully. Good luck with your filly

[Cathyleabo]

For another relative newbie, could someone explain Red Bag?

[AscotStud]

For another relative newbie, could someone explain Red Bag?

I think I've got this right but some of the other people could have a better explanation (this is where my Political Science kicks in and my lack of Animal Science can cloud a description a little).
When the placentabreaks from the umbilical cord while still inside the mare, the placenta will come out first and the foal will still be inside (causing a lack of oxygen). You pretty much have to get the baby out as quick as possible. There was very well bred one at a farm I worked at in Ky, the filly made it, but was loco. Bad stall walker, very nervous around people. Then on the odd day she would be perfect as if nothing was wrong. The lack of oxygen killed more than a few of her brain cells.

I'm sure I left a few things out, but at least you've got an idea now.

[magic code]

We had a red bag earlier this year. She couldn't even lift her head for the first couple hours (milked colustrum and bottlefed it to her.) But less than 2 hours later she was bucking and playing. I couldn't believe it, compared to how weak she'd been. Everything has been A-OK since.

Good luck with yours.

AscotStud did a good job.
Red bag = placenta previa. The placenta detaches from the uterine wall prematurely, which cuts the foal's oxygen supply (which comes through the umbilical cord.) So, rather than the white sac and front hooves coming first, you see a big, THICK red blob. You have to tear through that as fast as possible (and it's not easy) to get to the baby and get it out.

[Jenny]

Just to add to Ascot. It means the placenta comes out first it does not necessarily mean the placenta had detached from the uterus. It could be the position that the placenta was in all along. Where it had originally attached in the first place. You do need to get the foal out as fast as possible. You do not need to get the "red bag" out before the foal, as this could take up valuable time. You cut through the 'red bag" and retrieve the foal as fast a possible.

I just looked up and saw that magic code had answered aswell!

[K~2]

There was a recent discussion on another bulletin board that I frequently read about red bag deliveries. It absolutely is the premature separation of the placenta, and oxygen is cut off. It is more common in mares that suffer from placentitis, or those that have a poor uterine biopsy score. The key to success is the quick delivery of the foal.

Here is the detailed thread, with lots of good information.

[Mood Swings]

There was a recent discussion on another bulletin board that I frequently read about red bag deliveries. It absolutely is the premature separation of the placenta, and oxygen is cut off. It is more common in mares that suffer from placentitis, or those that have a poor uterine biopsy score. The key to success is the quick delivery of the foal.

Very true!

Just wanted to add that often with a "red bag" delivery the mares water does not break. This is an indicator to the foaling attendent that something is wrong as the mare will likely be having contractions but there is no progress. You're best chance at saving the foal is to tear through the placenta and amniotic sac before you even see the placenta. As everyone has said a quick delivery is paramount to the survival of the foal.

Patuxet - how is your filly?

[Jenny]

With any foaling you never know when the placenta decides to detach. So really when you think about it. It is important to get the foal out quickly all the time! When we just had our huge Gone Fishin colt. you could see his little tongue starting to turn blue. So we knew we did not have much time! What a scary thought, it really gets your adrenalin flowing.

I always thought that if your foal lacks oxygen, then their suckling reflex gets affected also. That was the first thing the vet checked when he was foaled. It was strong, so he said he was not worried. and thank God he was fine!

I really never have had any problems. (knock on wood) like these so I am no expert. I have only had 12 foals experience, but try to learn from people and vets who have much more experienced than I. I always say, try to stay humble because when you think you know it all, something happens to make you realize otherwise

[K~2]

With any foaling you never know when the placenta decides to detach. So really when you think about it. It is important to get the foal out quickly all the time! When we just had our huge Gone Fishin colt. you could see his little tongue starting to turn blue. So we knew we did not have much time! What a scary thought, it really gets your adrenalin flowing.

Most foals, regardless of whether or not they are red bag deliveries will have a purple or blue tongue.. it's normal . Only once the chest cavity is through the birth canal, the foal will start to breathe. Which is why getting the foal out in the case of a red bag birth is critical, the oxygen supply from the placenta has been cut off because the attachments to the mare's uterus has been compromised. That's when they become hypoxic, and brain damage may occur.

I would suggest anyone with foaling mares read as much as you possibly can (although it is absolutely no substitute for hands on experience). I really like The Complete Book of Foaling: An Illustrated Guide for the Foaling Attendant by Karen Hayes, DVM (which I reread every foaling season to refresh my memory), and Equine-Reproduction.com, which is a font of knowledge for everything reproduction.

Patuxet, I hope your foal is doing well.

[Patuxet]

Thank all of you for your informative, concerned and supportive posts.

This has been most unnerving. I don't wish to be autobiographical, but this has been a far more hands on experience than I ever expected. Thank God I was able to be there for the foaling. It turns out I was, thanks to the internet, more informed than the farm folks in whom I'd placed my trust and that I've had access to a concerned and knowledgeable vet.

There have been some new complications. Her blood count turned out to be very low and she has twice been given plasma. She's also developed diarrhea, probably from all the medications. However, she's still bright, active, curious, and playful. She's nursing well and no longer has trouble getting up.

The vet ascribes the red bag problem to her extreme size. I'd been warned that Milwaukee Brews could be large but this one's a giantess -- the largest foal the vet says he's ever seen. 12 hours after she was born a concerned breeder visited and remarked she looked two-months old.

She appears to be picture perfect.. Her legs are straight, pasterns angled, athletic body, good depth of chest, long muscular neck and an almost Arab sculpted head. She's a real beauty.

I bought the mare at auction in January knowing I was getting a well-bred stakes winner. But she's so much more -- an absolutely exemplary mother with a trusting and attentive temperament, copious supply of milk and instinctively balletic in the way she maneuvers around her foal in the stall.

I'm an extraordinarily lucky old man.

[Jenny]

Well thank you K~2 for all your knowledge. You must read alot, or spend most of your jobless hours on the internet! Well lets say my vet was in a panic. So i guess it was NOT normal.

With you having had 4 foals I guess you are a self proclaimed expert!!!!!

[madelyn]

Just to add to Ascot. It means the placenta comes out first it does not necessarily mean the placenta had detached from the uterus. It could be the position that the placenta was in all along...

No. It DOES mean the placenta has detached and the oxygen supply through the umbilical cord IS cut off. In a normal delivery, the placenta remains firmly attached to the uterus until the foal is all the way out and the umbilical cord has severed on its own. Mares will deliver the placenta sometime later. The placenta cannot POSSIBLY come out first AND remain attached to the uterus. That is physically impossible, unless the uterus is coming out too and you have a much bigger problem.

[Roguelet]

Well thank you K~2 for all your knowledge. You must read alot, or spend most of your jobless hours on the internet! Well lets say my vet was in a panic. So i guess it was NOT normal.

With you having had 4 foals I guess you are a self proclaimed expert!!!!!

Well, that was unneccesarily snarky.

Actually, I have seen plenty of foals with blue tongues during the foaling process because they haven't started "breathing" yet. To clarify: I am not a self proclaimed expert but I have had more than 4 foals.

I have experienced one red bag delivery in approx. 15 years of watching equine births. I dearly hope it is the only one I ever see.