SUCCEED vs. Brewer;s Yeats

[griff]

I bought some SUCCEED to try out.. Lookiing at the lable it has more Oat Oil than Oat Flour and more Oat Flour than Brewers Yeats; then some other stuff

A friend says it's not any better that Brewers Yeast that she mixes with corn oil and gives by tube. She also feeds a lot of oats

SUCCEED has an article on their web site stating that 80% to 90% of perfromance horses have stomac ulcers and around 60% also have uncers in their intestines. And that Omeprazole based ulcer medication does nothing for the uncers in the lower GI.

Any thoughts or expedience

griff

[griff]

Yeast not Yeats

g

[walaa]

corn oil is only beneficial in very small amounts, in large amounts, IT IS NOT GOOD. In my opinion, anything you have to mix and give by tube, how can you tell what is giving the ulcer (I have never, in 40 years of horse ownership, EVER, seen a horse that liked corn oil in its feed, they say they do, but I havent seen it) The trauma, even of a small tube, even if you are talking about just using a syringe to give something, is still a daily or multiple times daily aggravation for an animal that wont eat that particular mixture on its own in the feedbucket. If you have to give it in any way besides out of their bucket, that means they dont like it, therefore, off their feed or unhappy or whatever, so why bother? Its another thing if it is necessary, like anitbiotics, and that kind of thing. If you are talking about horses on the track with very specific needs thats again another thing, I dont know about that but I would make sure I could pay a trainer that I could at least feel somewhat good about their decisions, and could be in involved in them, with confidence that I REALLY WAS involved IF I knew what was good for a horse in race training, which of course I dont, but a regular horse I had a mare fracture her skull in several places, one dose of antibiotics was all I got, in feed or orally, after that she was untouchable and on her own, and actually healed instead of dying. Just an example, is all. If I had tried to force her to have what she the vet said she needed to live, she would have been ulcified!!! Just joking, I know thats is not the situation you are talking about, but if you need a supplement, and the horse wont eat it out of its bucket, and doesnt HAVE to have it, per trainer or track vet or something, then giving it to the animal orally or by tubing will cause nothing but unhappiness, therefore stress, therefore ulcers, which they probably already have anyways, if they are at the track, right Great post, isnt it Just joking, its Friday and I am ready to ramble

[griff]

And your position on SUCCEED vs. Brewer's Yeast is ????

griff

[walaa]

obviously, griff you are an ass, I try to make a joking but obvious post that anything you have to give a horse by tube, in your said case, about ulcers, can easily cause an ulcer, so no matter what it is, it wont help by tubing it in. Instead of enlightening me in any manner, you choose the road so many people on this board take, by trying to make me look, what Oh by the way, brewers yeast is a joke. The amount you have to give a horse to get the result "proven" on humans is ridiculous, and good luck getting a horse to eat it in any form besides forcing it in somehow, and all the supplements that they might eat begin with 5 other things besides the supplement you are paying for, because without those flavors the equine wont eat it, which is why you speak of tubing. And also you apparently dont remember talking to me in person, many moons ago, about your horses you had for sale, and also you talked to me about property. WOW you sure pretended respect for a fellow equine owner then, when you were trying to get someone to buy property with you!!! Whatever, you, by your attempt to exclude any info I have to add, in the discussion with your "wiseass" post, prove you are turning into many that I have seen on this forum, with a million questions, then suddenly you are the resident expert, who has the authority to "diss" and disrespect others, when you have no idea who they are, but if they are someone else on this forum that you think are "in the know" its nothing but kissass for them. Good luck to you with your Brewers Yeast and Succeed, if your trainer on the racetrack is leaving it up to you about your racers, think again, if you cant get advice from your vet about which is better for your horses at home, (and I know thats hard, I have lived in your area, not much for vets since Dr. Dustin Christ left pine Meadows, he was great) than be nicer to people who just leave an opinion, I didnt say anything nasty or rude, just said what I thought, but there is nastier on this forum in the past few months from people that are so smart, than "YOUR POINT IS" or "YOUR POSITION IS"

[griff]

And you do realise that most peopel only reads about two lines of your post and move on

griff

[Fireslam]

Griff, funny post.

I use the generic Succeed from Smart Pak on the race horses. I forget what its called, but I use it along with Fastrack. I think its reasonably enough priced to use. Im not sure if its working or not, but I did have a horse run second at Gulfstream recently at big odds, and he'd only been on it about 20 days. Dont know if it helped, but it certainly didnt hurt.

[griff]

fireslam

Thanks for the input

Wec are going to run our own test.Next week we are putting my two 3 YO on SUCCEED and my friend is puting some of her race horses on Brewers Yeast.

PM me and I'll use that as a notice to get back with you and 30 and 60 days and let you know what we have noticed.

If it's not too much trouble keep me posted on your SUCCEED horse's progress.. I will probably stick with the SUCCEED if I get any kind od results like yours

griff

[Roger]

Why are you using the brewers yeast. I've heard all sorts of ideas over the years, but only one that made any sense to me was that it helped stimulate the hindgut bacteria. I've not seen any studies relating it to ulcers. I'll feed it when one is distressed like after a race or being sick, but I have no facts to say that it works, it seems to help speed up recovery, but that could be just me seeing what I want to see. I use a table spoon each meal and they tend to eat it. Once I did mix it with water and corn chops and soaked it over night and they loved that, but I got lazy again.

[Intrinsic Worth]

MSU did an unofficial test of corn oil on horses. More than two cups a day is a waste of money, but not detrimental to a horse's health. Vegetable oil is better though as corn oil can aggravate allergies.

corn oil is only beneficial in very small amounts, in large amounts, IT IS NOT GOOD. In my opinion, anything you have to mix and give by tube, how can you tell what is giving the ulcer (I have never, in 40 years of horse ownership, EVER, seen a horse that liked corn oil in its feed, they say they do, but I havent seen it) The trauma, even of a small tube, even if you are talking about just using a syringe to give something, is still a daily or multiple times daily aggravation for an animal that wont eat that particular mixture on its own in the feedbucket. If you have to give it in any way besides out of their bucket, that means they dont like it, therefore, off their feed or unhappy or whatever, so why bother? Its another thing if it is necessary, like anitbiotics, and that kind of thing. If you are talking about horses on the track with very specific needs thats again another thing, I dont know about that but I would make sure I could pay a trainer that I could at least feel somewhat good about their decisions, and could be in involved in them, with confidence that I REALLY WAS involved IF I knew what was good for a horse in race training, which of course I dont, but a regular horse I had a mare fracture her skull in several places, one dose of antibiotics was all I got, in feed or orally, after that she was untouchable and on her own, and actually healed instead of dying. Just an example, is all. If I had tried to force her to have what she the vet said she needed to live, she would have been ulcified!!! Just joking, I know thats is not the situation you are talking about, but if you need a supplement, and the horse wont eat it out of its bucket, and doesnt HAVE to have it, per trainer or track vet or something, then giving it to the animal orally or by tubing will cause nothing but unhappiness, therefore stress, therefore ulcers, which they probably already have anyways, if they are at the track, right Great post, isnt it Just joking, its Friday and I am ready to ramble

[griff]

Rodger

I read some stuff on the SUCCEED web site and one article stated that 90% of preformance horses have stomac ulcers and 60% have colon, or maybe it was intestional ulcers, and that Omeprazole based ulcer medication did nothing for the colon or intestine ulcers.. They did not claim SUCCEED would cure the colon ulcers but did suggest that it would help.

I have a 3 yo that I think has "gut" ulcers and will start him on SUCCEED today or tomorrow.. SUCCEED consists of Oat Oil, Oat Flour, Brewer's Yeast and severl more ingrediants.. My friend thinks brewers yeats will do just as much good for the gut ulcers as the SUCCEED.

I'm not feeding brewers Yeast but my friend is and we will evaluate our horses' progress, if any, at 1, 2 & 3 months.

My original question was to try to get input from people that had tried both or one.

griff

[doublete]

I myself have not used Succeed, but an online acquaintance did and I think they had good results.

I also would argue that things given in a tube are not an aggravation, but become easily accepted. I give two of my racehorses the stomach soother (papaya) via oral dose syringe instead of in their feed to be sure they get it. They love it and I only need to stick it in the side of their mouth and start squirting, they slurp it up. Well, one of them does (as did the last one that I had started with the stuff for), and he's horrible for anything else oral. now he likes it ALOT and is ok for other oral treatments (wind aid).

I'd suggest the stomach soother for anyone with a nervous type horse that seems to not eat with too much gusto. It's great stuff.

[griff]

Thanks Doublety

The gelding I think may have gut ulcers is a calm easy to be around horse. He ran his first two 4 1/2 races like they were 7 furlong races and I though he might want to longer.. His third race was a 7 furlong and he did well until the 5/8 pole where he quit.. I noticed he had lost weight and condition when he was being saddled in the paddock so I'm pretty sure bleeding was not his only problem.

We put him on Lasix but he's not coming back like he should be doing and we've got him on 1/2 tube of Omeprazole a day and will start the SUCCEED this weekend..

Seems like the SUCCEED vs. Brewers Yeast post has been a bust. If anyone is interested in how our in-house assessement of SUCCEED vs. Brewers Yeast comes out send me a private post and I;ll get back to you in mid to late April

griff

[Roger]

Rodger

I read some stuff on the SUCCEED web site and one article stated that 90% of preformance horses have stomac ulcers and 60% have colon, or maybe it was intestional ulcers, and that Omeprazole based ulcer medication did nothing for the colon or intestine ulcers.. They did not claim SUCCEED would cure the colon ulcers but did suggest that it would help.

I have a 3 yo that I think has "gut" ulcers and will start him on SUCCEED today or tomorrow.. SUCCEED consists of Oat Oil, Oat Flour, Brewer's Yeast and severl more ingrediants.. My friend thinks brewers yeats will do just as much good for the gut ulcers as the SUCCEED.

I'm not feeding brewers Yeast but my friend is and we will evaluate our horses' progress, if any, at 1, 2 & 3 months.

My original question was to try to get input from people that had tried both or one.

griff

I really think that 90% of stalled horses have ulcers. Intestinal ulcers are rare in most mammals, because they produce sodium bicarbinate a base to neutralize acidic contents of the stomachs. Maybe the gut has worm sores and these fester into ulcers. Really interesting idea, but I don't think ulcers outside the stomachs would be caused by acid.

[griff]

Roger

if you Google SUCCEED and look around you will find a paper that says 60% of preformaced horses have intestinal ulcers..

Thanks for the suggestion on worms as I have not had his droppings tested.. Have you looked at the kit SUCCEED is selling??

griff