Adonis

General on-topic discussion.

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hurleynyc
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Adonis

Postby hurleynyc » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:10 am

Does anyone know where he is currently standing? He was a nice Kris S. stallion, standing in New York at Centerbrook Farm, which I guess is going out of biz, if Ernie Paragallo is dispersing all of his stock? Anyway, I had Adonis on my radar in Florida as of last Spring, but not sure if he is at Jubilee or Rising Hill, or somewhere else entirely. My partnership bred a beautiful filly by him... he's probably exceptional value for those breeding to race, if his pedigree fits, because he's sort of slipped through the cracks and will not have large crops. He originally stood for $7500, I believe. Any information would be appreciated.

Sam
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Postby Sam » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:21 am

Bloodhorse still shows him at Jubilee in FL for $4,000.

Only had 3 starters from 29 2yos. Not very encouraging, even for a Kris S.

hurleynyc
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Postby hurleynyc » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:59 am

Hi Sam, thanks for the info.

Well, he's not listed on the Jubilee Farms website, and I was unable to contact anyone at the farm by phone (both #, no answer). I had some vague recollection that he'd gone to Rising Hill.

Yes, I know that most of his offspring have not started yet (first crop) but you have to factor in a couple of things that don't really reflect on the quality of the sire: a) I don't think there are actually 29 two year olds - the farm in NY had some troubles and I believe some were lost after they were registered; and b) perhaps more importantly, many of those now 2 year olds were bred by the owner of the stallion at that time. It's been widely reported that he is pretty much leaving the business, and I believe he was offering a lot of his stock on deals (free if new owner trains and runs them in NY). I think their opportunities have been radically diminished under the circumstances. IMHO we sometimes forget how significant a factor the "people" side of the business can be in making or breaking a stallion. Adonis was a very good looking horse (certainly our filly was one of the most correct we've bred, and well muscled and light on her feet to boot) and he had a decent family. You wouldn't expect loads of year old success, given the pedigree, but certainly more than the stats alone show. (Again, I think that's opportunity). But I would venture that Adonis would or could be an Arch-type (no I don't mean archetype!) I mean similar to the stallion Arch in that his progeny will require time but may be very good indeed with a little patience.

hurleynyc
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Postby hurleynyc » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:02 pm

sorry, that was supposed to read "loads of 2 year old success."
I'm having a little trouble with this keyboard today. :)

sprucie
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Postby sprucie » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:51 pm

HurleyNYC,

This is off topic, but I still have your saddle here where you were boarding a couple of your mares. Please contact me about it 8). [email protected]

hurleynyc
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Postby hurleynyc » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:07 pm

Sprucie,

How nice that you still have it! I will definitely be in touch. :)

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Pete
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Postby Pete » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:14 pm

Hi Hurley,

Adonis seasons were offered for free if Ernie was made half breeder about 2 years ago. He did this with all his lesser stallions in NY.

You make a superb point about the connections - the environment and their impact on racing success. Far too often people look at the progeny of stallions as if they all had the same chance and opportunities to race.

Now I don't necessarily agree that Adonis is a good value for a stallion, and he's not done well to date, but I do agree that his opportunities have been compromised.

Regards,

Pete

hurleynyc
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Postby hurleynyc » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:28 am

Hi Pete,

Welcome back! It is so nice to read your informed comments on this Board again.

Some further thoughts on why I liked (still like) Adonis: He's big, well-conformed and stamps his babies - they're a good looking group. He's by Kris S. which suited my big framed, Mr. Prospector line mare. (I had dreams of Hollywood Wildcat... and then War Chant) I also think Adonis was a better than useful racehorse: G1 placed twice, beating Yankee Victor in the Cigar Mile, and Behrens in the Gulfstream Park H., was a G2 winner, winning the Wood Memorial (weak field, but fast time), and a G3 winner - won the Discovery H. He didn't fare well against the cream of his crop, but was unquestionably a good racehorse. The female family is not bad at all - he's out of a Dixieland Band stakes mare, and half to at least two stakes horses, one of them graded (last time I checked).

He actually did stand for $7,500 (probably too high) his first year in New York (so he wasn't one of the owner's lesser NY stallion, he was second only to Artax) and they moved him down to $5,000 for 2002 and 2003. In late 2002 a bloodstock agent was offering highly discounted seasons for 2003, but not free. (The marketing of this horse overall was not well organized). The horse was moved near year's end 2003 to Florida. I don't think he was in New York when Paragallo made the annoucement that the NY stallions would be free to those willing to share breeding awards - so he wasn't included in that group, I'm pretty sure. The free deals were offered I believe on Aristotlen, Danzatame,Dontletthebigonego etc.

In any event, it is too bad that he has slipped through the cracks so badly. I think this probably happened for several reasons:
Almost non-existent advertising/marketing. I discovered that Adonis was standing in NY almost by accident. (If you were not an avid reading of the racing pubs you might have blinked and missed it). The stallion booker was hard to contact - and frequently failed to return calls/emails. After the 2nd year, they dropped Adonis from the Bloodhorse Stallion Register altogether, which I found astonishing given that he was a multiple graded winner, and given that the Stallion register is full of unraced $1000 sires. They were also not good at doing all the paperwork in timely fashion - e.g. didn't get the report of mares bred - live foal reports - that kind of stuff in to the JC on time, which initially left him on record as having low # and left one with the impression he was subfertile or had hardly any foals. (I know I asked about it). I'm sure that Adonis' stamina-loaded pedigree was also a negative consideration to breeders looking for precocity and speed. Additionally, as I recall he ran poorly in one or more of the triple crown races - which people will tend to remember, I guess. Also, the horse is a "shy breeder" and likes to take his time - great fun for the girls, but I guess made it difficult to schedule 2 or 3 mares in a day! (He does stops them well, though. My mare was a one-cover.) There were probably unfair rumors in that regard.

I did contact the Rising Hill farm in Florida - he is there now, no longer at Jubilee, and standing for $3,500. I hope he does well. I'm glad you take my point regarding the opportunities - I'm sure it applies in this case, since the first crop was mostly bred by the owner, who was ill and cutting back on his horse business.

So lots of reasons why Adonis didn't take off as I thought he should. Now, why would you say that he might not be good value? Obviously, time will tell whether he has value as a sire - but one might have to look beyond the stats, as you agree. Small crop, overlooked sires can be a wonderful find - look at Eltish go now!

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Pete
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Postby Pete » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:21 am

Hi Hurley,

Thanks for the welcome back.

I understand what you like about Adonis and we agree that he's had few opportunities.

My e-mail is [email protected].

Please email me because I have some info might be of interest to you.,

Regards,

Pete