adoptable racehorses--ever return to track?

[Toccet02]

How many times, if ever, have you seen say a 5YO gelding offered for adoption in a trainer listing, with no mentioned injury, return to the track? I'm guessing this 99% means their career is over.

[madelyn]

In my personal experience, trainers who are offering stock out for adoption or low-priced purchase offer the horse on the condition that the horse is never to be raced again. Oftentimes the horse is offered without papers to prevent him or her from falling into the "wrong" hands and end up back on a track somewhere.

[Crystal]

It maybe a few years later before they turn up at some shit bull ring fair circuit track, but it happens. "Not to Be Raced" written on their papers is one way to try to prevent it, but anyone can get a new set of papers. I know a few people who report the horse to the JC as dead so they can no longer be entered but that won't work for possible future breeding stock.

[Toccet02]

about how often does this happen, do you think? (the illegitimate return to track)

[majxmom]

A friend of mine had a horse named Touchment that made about $100,000 for him. He gave it away at the end of his career with the papers in CA. Six months later he saw a work for the horse in the DRF in WA. He called up the people he gave the horse to, and said, WTF? They said he was unhappy and walked the fence line all day, so they gave him to somebody to put him back racing. He ran several more years and did little. After I heard this story, I tried to find him for my friend, who could not financially afford to get him but was heartbroken over what he had done. He was sure Touchment was dogmeat somewhere. I actually found that he had worked in the last six months at Playfair, but I could never find the trainer who last ran him, or get them to call me. Never did find him... Now my friend's rule is that he never gives the papers with the horse, but I think they actually sustain their value if they go with their papers.

The JC asked for public comments a few months ago. I asked them to create a database where owners could give their horses away and cancel their papers for the purpose of racing, but allow the papers to go with the horse. That would leave horses with their interesting histories without risk of returning to racing. I never got any answer to my feedback.

[Derby Lyn]

You can sell the horse "Without a pedigree," meaning that the papers are to be returned to the JC and the horse cannot be raced. To my understanding writing "not to be raced" on the papers is considered defacing them and are no longer good papers.

Directly from their rule book:
18. SOLD WITHOUT PEDIGREE

A. Any owner who desires a horse no longer to be considered a Thoroughbred for racing or breeding purposes must promptly surrender the Certificate of Foal Registration to The Jockey Club within 60 days after the date of sale with an accompanying notation that the horse was transferred or sold "without pedigree." The notation must be signed by the owner or authorized agent and indicate the date of disposition. In the event the owner or authorized agent surrenders the Certificate of Foal Registration to The Jockey Club in the above manner more than 60 days after the date of transfer or sale, then the new owner or transferee must also submit a statement that the horse was purchased or received without pedigree.

B. Upon receipt in The Jockey Club Registry Office, the respective Certificate of Foal Registration will be cancelled. Once the registration is cancelled, the horse cannot be reinstated into the registry, and a Duplicate Certificate of Foal Registration will not be issued.

C. Notations upon a Certificate of Foal Registration which do not clearly indicate transferred or sold without pedigree, including notations such as "not to be raced," shall not result in cancellation of the Certificate of Foal Registration. Such notations could be regarded as defacing the Certificate of Foal Registration. Submission to The Jockey Club of any such defaced Certificate of Foal Registration may cause a Corrected Certificate of Foal Registration to be issued.

[madelyn]

The problem with that is the "not for racing or breeding" where there are oftentimes people looking for homes for fillies with no issue with them being used for broodmares - they usually need to send the papers with the filly.

[Crystal]

but you dont need the JC papers to breed a mare, but then again they cant be sent to the JC as sold without pedigree or (to my understanding) the JC won't let the resulting foal be registered. It doesn't mean she wouldnt have use as a broodmare, but just with a non-TB or grade TB.

I have noticed it is mostly aged gelding that get passed off and end up in different hands and raced. I'm not saying it doesn't happen with mares too, but I have just seen it with gelding.

I recently had a old horse cross my mind named Carpe Demon. I won 3 in a row at Rockingham Park/Suffolk Downs geez I think back in 2001. He was a 1998 Ch colt. My boss posted him on Canter and we gave him away to a lady who was from Canada.

I asked on twitter (on a whim) if anyone had a pp for him. A friend told me he last raced in 07 at Parx.. I was a little awakened and shocked. A few google searches later I did find him at a warmblood farm and they had pictures of him and his foals. So I had a happy ending unlike quite a few out there. I managed to send a short note to the new owner who answered me in broken english/french letting me know he was ok. I didnt inquire about his past.

I guess I can just recommend staying in contact with the purchasers and letting them know if the horse doesnt work out you will take him back. This may not always work for a trainer but it maybe a start.

[Lucy]

In addition to the points posted above, many of the sound horses listed as 'available' on Canter are not actually retired. In some cases the trainer is aware that the horse's career is in fact winding down, and want to start looking ahead to the next stage, but if the horse still can run it probably will.

Other trainers are just looking to sell horses - they have them listed to let the public know that they are willing to sell the horse to interested parties off the track, meanwhile the horses are still showing up in claiming races in case anyone *on* the track wants them. No question many of them are better suited to be riding horses, but in the meantime they need to earn their stalls.

Of course, Canter-owned retirees, and horses from organizations like the TRF and ReRun would be quite a different story; if horses that had been listed there re-appear at the track, somone was likely deceived. But a trainer listing at Canter does not equal 'retired', just 'available'.

[madelyn]

Actually, Crystal, you DO need the mare's papers for most of the regional programs. You have to send a copy of the front and back to Indiana, etc., for the mare to be registered and her offspring eligible for the state bred programs.

[griff]

not all "throw-aways' are done racing.

Look up the tail of Totally Selfish who my friend bought from a meat buyer and was delivered with a case of strangles..

In less that a year Totally Selfish won $70k plus and was sold for around $75k.. Claimed back for $5,000 @ Charles Town and had another year of successful racing before finally sold to a QH ranch as a brood mare..

the thoroughbred Times did a story about the fist part of this story before her buyes gave up on her and put her in a $5k claiming race.

A different trainer can sometimes make all the difference in the world.

griff

[Crystal]

I wasnt aware for Indiana you needed to do that, but that is just for state bred races/breeders awards. Not open company I know for a fact NY you just have to register and pay a fee, KY- register and pay a fee. Again, thats just for breeders awards. Which most do like that extra check, but you dont need the papers in general, but they are most appreciated when they do follow the transfer.

[Sylvie Hebert]

Carpe Demon was not given away.He was sold for $2000. I bought him in New England for a client of mine.He had such terrible feet and ankles it took a year for him to be in shape for racing.He was a barrel horse for a while and i saw him on internet for sale again so i bought him back put him back in shape a second time and sold him to that lady,Helene Beland for stud duties on warmblood mares I have great pictures of him if you want any...He was a nice horse really sweet and classy.

[erins isle]

[quote="madelyn"]In my personal experience, trainers who are offering stock out for adoption or low-priced purchase offer the horse on the condition that the horse is never to be raced again. Oftentimes the horse is offered without papers to prevent him or her from falling into the "wrong" hands and end up back on a track somewhere.[/quote]

There is one way, to declare them to the JC being ''dead'' in my country a trainer did this, sold the horse/gave it away it is so easy, a dead horse can't run ever again!

[madelyn]

Yes.. but a dead horse can't have any foals either. It is also a lie.