"The Kentucky Horse Racing Commission has officially disqualified Sign from her first-place finish in the G2 Pocahontas Stakes last November at Churchill Downs, after the filly tested positive for methocarbamol. The Class C drug is commonly used in muscle relaxants.
Sign, a daughter of Pulpit, races as a homebred for Claiborne Farm and Adele Dilschneider, and is trained by Al Stall Jr"
Interested in hearing opinions on this (as I have slightly more than a passing interest in the filly involved), but would like to hear how methocarbamol gets into a filly unless intentionally, and why the fine for this is only $250 - against Al Stall.
The owner - in this case Claiborne - get the big pimping and the trainer gets $250.
I can imagine the news if the trainer was Dutrow instead...or the owner was Gill...but here you have Claiborne and Stall. Let's see what happens....
Sign DQ'd due to drug positive
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
Re: Sign DQ'd due to drug positive
ct2346 wrote:"The Kentucky Horse Racing Commission has officially disqualified Sign from her first-place finish in the G2 Pocahontas Stakes last November at Churchill Downs, after the filly tested positive for methocarbamol. The Class C drug is commonly used in muscle relaxants.
Sign, a daughter of Pulpit, races as a homebred for Claiborne Farm and Adele Dilschneider, and is trained by Al Stall Jr"
Interested in hearing opinions on this (as I have slightly more than a passing interest in the filly involved), but would like to hear how methocarbamol gets into a filly unless intentionally, and why the fine for this is only $250 - against Al Stall.
The owner - in this case Claiborne - get the big pimping and the trainer gets $250.
I can imagine the news if the trainer was Dutrow instead...or the owner was Gill...but here you have Claiborne and Stall. Let's see what happens....
Hi ct,
Robaxin was a common pre-race drug allowed till a few years ago when it was no longer permitted on race day. Still allowed as a therapeutic treatment for certain ailments with a specific withdrawal time according to your racing jurisdiction. As a pre-race drug it was used effectively on horses prone to tying up. Also helpful to sore backed horses working as a muscle relaxant.
It doesn't mysteriously appear in a horses bloodstream...either one of his employee's administered oral Methocarbamol intentionally or in error, the blood sample was somehow switched at the lab (highly unlikely as the split sample proved the same) or the Vet forgot he gave her the shot:>) Concerning Stall's $250 fine...this is the fine for a first offense penalty for Robaxin. It seems a far cry from taking away the purse money....which may be the first time that has ever happened for a Robaxin positive. TJ
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photofinish
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"If the stewards' decision stands, runner-up Gal About Town would become the winner and purse money would be redistributed. Royse said there should be no forfeiture of purse money. He said that 43 previous first-offense Class C violations in the past three years in Kentucky did not carry a purse forfeiture."
I agree with this. There should not be a DQ off of a first offense Class C. The whole testing down to picograms is a problem in and of itself, IMO. I don't remember an instance where there was loss of purse and the trainer only got fined $250. Loss of purse is generally part and parcel with high fines and suspension worthy offenses.
I would fight it, too.
I agree with this. There should not be a DQ off of a first offense Class C. The whole testing down to picograms is a problem in and of itself, IMO. I don't remember an instance where there was loss of purse and the trainer only got fined $250. Loss of purse is generally part and parcel with high fines and suspension worthy offenses.
I would fight it, too.
photofinish wrote:"If the stewards' decision stands, runner-up Gal About Town would become the winner and purse money would be redistributed. Royse said there should be no forfeiture of purse money. He said that 43 previous first-offense Class C violations in the past three years in Kentucky did not carry a purse forfeiture."
I agree with this. There should not be a DQ off of a first offense Class C. The whole testing down to picograms is a problem in and of itself, IMO. I don't remember an instance where there was loss of purse and the trainer only got fined $250. Loss of purse is generally part and parcel with high fines and suspension worthy offenses.
I would fight it, too.
The purse is only part of it. The Gr 2 black type will vanish too.
On the other hand - I note that the parties involved met on January 26th about this - and all parties, stewards included, chose to keep it hush hush for at least the last week (likely longer). This backroom wrangling causes serious image problems for the sport in my mind. In the meantime - the sale of relatives, breeding decisions all occuring while the sport's officials knew there was a problem. This one is going to spawn a problem or two.
Additional quote from Sign's owner's lawyer David Royse: "The Stewards' decision to disqualify SIGN from a Grade 2 Stakes win and require her owners to forfeit the purse of $101,125 for a first offense Class C violation is a sharp departure from forty-three (43) Kentucky Stewards' rulings in the last three years in First Offense Class C violations where the only penalty was a $250 fine, and no purse forfeiture.
"Though not stated in the Ruling, the Stewards’ decision appears to be premised on a misreading or misapplication of the Regulations as amended August 31, 2012, which clearly distinguish between penalties for Class A and B medication violations (which require disqualification of the horse and forfeiture of the purse) and the penalties for Class C medication violations (which do not mandate disqualification and forfeiture, and specifically require the Stewards to consider the seriousness of the particular Class C violation and any mitigating circumstances)."
Seems like they have a good case to overturn the stewards decision after reading the lawyers quote. Yet I don't believe this horse was never administered Robaxin at one point in her training. TJ
"Though not stated in the Ruling, the Stewards’ decision appears to be premised on a misreading or misapplication of the Regulations as amended August 31, 2012, which clearly distinguish between penalties for Class A and B medication violations (which require disqualification of the horse and forfeiture of the purse) and the penalties for Class C medication violations (which do not mandate disqualification and forfeiture, and specifically require the Stewards to consider the seriousness of the particular Class C violation and any mitigating circumstances)."
Seems like they have a good case to overturn the stewards decision after reading the lawyers quote. Yet I don't believe this horse was never administered Robaxin at one point in her training. TJ
Didn't a horse get cayenne pepper in their system from a groom eating Doritos and wrapping a bandage that the horse then licked? Weird things can cause positives. Given who's involved and the reaction, I don't know that it was intentional. It doesn't seem like Al Stall's style to sneak this, and I think he'd know if he had her given it in training. He seemed offended that anyone would think he'd even made a mistake in giving it to her too close to a race in the first place.
I know vets can forget things, but you'd think they'd be concerned about billing the owner at some point. Funny but when it comes to getting a paycheck, people tend to have better memories about what they're owed and what work they did.
If it were me, I'd have all the horses under a webcam or something for surveillance. I think Repole does that just so he can be all up in Pletcher's business and gawk at his own horses, not that I blame him. Todd may be annoyed, but it's big money so he puts up with it and laughs it off. If someone sneaks in there to give them an injection, there would be a record of it. As expenditures go, it's not a big one if you're talking about horses valued at hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
I know vets can forget things, but you'd think they'd be concerned about billing the owner at some point. Funny but when it comes to getting a paycheck, people tend to have better memories about what they're owed and what work they did.
If it were me, I'd have all the horses under a webcam or something for surveillance. I think Repole does that just so he can be all up in Pletcher's business and gawk at his own horses, not that I blame him. Todd may be annoyed, but it's big money so he puts up with it and laughs it off. If someone sneaks in there to give them an injection, there would be a record of it. As expenditures go, it's not a big one if you're talking about horses valued at hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
We used cayenne all the time on our track bandages with never an issue...it's in most commercial chew stop products too. Every barn I've worked in has used it at liberty to stop bandage chewing, I've never heard of a positive from it though! How much would they have to ingest to test positive?
As for how Sign got Methocarbamol, is it possible a person who used if may have used her stall as a toilet and she ate feed off the same spot? Gross yes, but not at all unfeasible if the grooms I've worked with in the past are anyone to judge by?
As for how Sign got Methocarbamol, is it possible a person who used if may have used her stall as a toilet and she ate feed off the same spot? Gross yes, but not at all unfeasible if the grooms I've worked with in the past are anyone to judge by?
A woman needs 2 animals in her life-the horse of her dreams, and a jackass to pay for it!