My husband and I are going to purchase a weanling stud colt this fall. And we are planning on keeping him a stud, he is foundation and running blood. So we figure we have the best of both worlds. And we have a full sister to him, that is AWESOME.
Since he is a stud we will keep in his own pen, near our other geldings, but by himself. We want to start breeding with him his 2 yr old year(trying to get an idea what he produces-in case he was meant to be a gelding) and he won't be broke to ride yet(because we like to wait until the fall). Do you suggest pasture breeding with him for a couple years, or hand breeding, or both? I hate to see a stallion running on his back legs as soon as he sees a mare.........I know I exaggerated.....but you get the picture. I want him to respect mares, and court them. Does this make since? And does anyone-or has anyone ran their stallions with their geldings(wasn't sure-just had to ask)? We will use him for performance also, and we intend to breed with him until he is an aged stallion. Please any suggestions I would appreciate
Thanks for all your help
All stallion handlers...........I want to pick your brain...
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trcampidilli
- Weanling
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louis finochio
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The best way to set the table is to breed a handful of mares to him and see if he is a hit or miss.
If you intend to breed a full book of mares and he doesnt make it, you will be putting the cart before the horse.
What is your colts name, as I would like to research his family. Thanks best of luck in your endeavours.
If you intend to breed a full book of mares and he doesnt make it, you will be putting the cart before the horse.
What is your colts name, as I would like to research his family. Thanks best of luck in your endeavours.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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trcampidilli
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louis finochio wrote:The best way to set the table is to breed a handful of mares to him and see if he is a hit or miss.
If you intend to breed a full book of mares and he doesnt make it, you will be putting the cart before the horse.
What is your colts name, as I would like to research his family. Thanks best of luck in your endeavours.
That is a good idea, with a hand full of mares. I hope to bred a few of my mares and a few friend's mares. So that way i know they are a good quality mares, and I see them grow. He doesn't have a reg. name yet but he is out of Pepper Joe Hancock, and the mare is Feathers n Bug. The full sister we have is FEATHERS N BUGGY. Please let me know what you find out.
And here is a link where you can sse some snap shots of the stallion: http://www.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/p ... lbumid=857
Thanks
Rebecca
Re: All stallion handlers...........I want to pick your brai
trcampidilli wrote:Since he is a stud we will keep in his own pen, near our other geldings, but by himself. We want to start breeding with him his 2 yr old year(trying to get an idea what he produces-in case he was meant to be a gelding) and he won't be broke to ride yet(because we like to wait until the fall). Do you suggest pasture breeding with him for a couple years, or hand breeding, or both? I hate to see a stallion running on his back legs as soon as he sees a mare.........I know I exaggerated.....but you get the picture. I want him to respect mares, and court them. Does this make since? And does anyone-or has anyone ran their stallions with their geldings(wasn't sure-just had to ask)? We will use him for performance also, and we intend to breed with him until he is an aged stallion. Please any suggestions I would appreciate
If you want him to learn respect for mares, patience and how to court, I can guarentee you that a few experienced mares can teach him a lot better than you can. It has been my experience that hand-bred stallions tend to learn to be pushy, impatient and in some cases, agressive.
IMO, a "good" stallion will act like a gelding until it's time to "take care of business." You shouldn't have any problem running him with geldings, as long as there are no mares around and I mean no mares he can touch noses with, even over a fence.
Of course, I am speaking generalities here. Your colt is an individual. You will have to experiment and see what works and what doesn't work with him. In the end, if good common sense is used, it should be a good learning experience for all.
I agree pasture breeding can be the best way to train a stud, but on the other side of the coin, I have seen stallions who become agressive toward humans if later in life they are hand-bred or AI'd. I would suggest doing both. There is a greater chance of him getting the snot kicked out of him in the pasture situation, so be aware and don't put him in with too many mares at one time. It really comes down to how comfortable YOU are at handling a stallion for breeding. More stallions than I can count turn out nasty due to handler negligence or ignorance. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER let him have the upper hand. There is no room for "cute" in a stallions lifestyle. Treat him like the hormone machine he is and cathc any potential problems long before they appear. A good stallion handler can see a problem a mile away before it becomes something you have to train out of him. And make sure you draw a very distinct line between breeding time, and everything else. Different halter, different area, different handler...EVERYTHING. Studs are so smart that they can pick up on it right away, and don't take any half measures from him. If you are not breeding, don't let him "hang-out" while you are handling him. Don't let him whinny like a stud when he passes another horse. Don't let him even think about being a stud while you are away from the breeding area. Then, if a stick situation arises while you are on the trail, or in the show pen, or even in your own barn, you don't have to worry that he is going to get the wrong idea.
I was grooming for a barn and we were at Spruce Meadows for one of the indoor shows. There was a girl there who had a gorgeous stallion, huge, beautiful righ bay. He was a bastard! She couldn't ride him in the warm up area because he would try to chase the other horse, or breed the mares. It took 3 people, 2 on the ground, and his rider to get him through the hitching ring and into the stadium. When he was younger, he had covered mares everywhere. A bit of "have stallion, will travel". He thought it was okay to be breeding anywhere. As far as I know, he never lost that habit.
I was grooming for a barn and we were at Spruce Meadows for one of the indoor shows. There was a girl there who had a gorgeous stallion, huge, beautiful righ bay. He was a bastard! She couldn't ride him in the warm up area because he would try to chase the other horse, or breed the mares. It took 3 people, 2 on the ground, and his rider to get him through the hitching ring and into the stadium. When he was younger, he had covered mares everywhere. A bit of "have stallion, will travel". He thought it was okay to be breeding anywhere. As far as I know, he never lost that habit.
A woman needs 2 animals in her life-the horse of her dreams, and a jackass to pay for it!
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tough hombre
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As crazy as this sounds he most likely won't know what to do the first 5 or 10 times he tries to breed. If you have never bred a new stallion before then this will be an experience for both of you. Just remember what doesn't kill you will make you stronger. 
He will try to breed from the tail to the head he knows he's supposed to do something he just won't know the mechanics. If you ever want to hand breed start hand breeding because it's easier to curb bad habits than to break bad habits.
Also if you hand breed make sure after the first breeding your not close to the stallion because some just fall off on the ground. They look like they just passed out.They can also hurt themselves if on a concrete surface, recomend a soft surface the first couple breedings. Actually I would suggest you attend a breeding seminar somewhere before you start your breeding program or at least spend a few days around a breeding farm, where someone can show you their program.
If you think it's dangerous in the pasture breeding, let a mare change her mind in close quarters with a couple people around and no where to go.I think it was Aristotle who said " we learn most quickly through pain " just remember learn from someone elses pain not your own. I can attest to the pain of a stallion falling on me the righting himself placing both hooves on one of my legs. It's not as easy as it looks, so many things can go wrong, whether hand or pasture breeding. Just learn as much as you can before you start.
He will try to breed from the tail to the head he knows he's supposed to do something he just won't know the mechanics. If you ever want to hand breed start hand breeding because it's easier to curb bad habits than to break bad habits.
Also if you hand breed make sure after the first breeding your not close to the stallion because some just fall off on the ground. They look like they just passed out.They can also hurt themselves if on a concrete surface, recomend a soft surface the first couple breedings. Actually I would suggest you attend a breeding seminar somewhere before you start your breeding program or at least spend a few days around a breeding farm, where someone can show you their program.
If you think it's dangerous in the pasture breeding, let a mare change her mind in close quarters with a couple people around and no where to go.I think it was Aristotle who said " we learn most quickly through pain " just remember learn from someone elses pain not your own. I can attest to the pain of a stallion falling on me the righting himself placing both hooves on one of my legs. It's not as easy as it looks, so many things can go wrong, whether hand or pasture breeding. Just learn as much as you can before you start.
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TBLADY
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as an ex employee of an Equine hospital I have seen the aftermath many times of Pasture breeding ...especially if the stallion is younger. Keep in mind if you intend you insure the stallion some companies are weird about pasture breeding. With in hand breeding you can at least pull the stallion off of the mare are take him away should things go wrong...and if you can't then hes not going to be too mannerly as a breeding prospect and this is something you should take into consideration. As a stallion owner I do not pasture breed and have found many mares owners will not want their mares pasture bred. If the stallion is familiar with the herd thats one thing but to just dump a shipped in mare out with a stallion and hope for the best is an ass kicking waiting to happen!
What are you breeding? If non tb would AI be an option for you?
What are you breeding? If non tb would AI be an option for you?
Fins to the Left....
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Intrinsic Worth
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Pasture breeding can be dangerous business, especially with a young stallion. A farm down the road lost a stud after the mare kicked him in the head.
An good stallion handler and a calm mare will make things much easier. However, this does not always mean you won't run into some trouble. Broken Vow took months to learn how to breed properly and Changeintheweather kicked out at a test mare and nicked an artery in her leg.
When I was at the Irish National Stud, it was Croco Rouge's first year and he caught on very quickly without any trouble at all.
An good stallion handler and a calm mare will make things much easier. However, this does not always mean you won't run into some trouble. Broken Vow took months to learn how to breed properly and Changeintheweather kicked out at a test mare and nicked an artery in her leg.
When I was at the Irish National Stud, it was Croco Rouge's first year and he caught on very quickly without any trouble at all.
All men are equal on the turf - or under it.
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louis finochio
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First time Boomer was bred was to a couple hussy non maiden Paint mares that knew the ropes as he had a wild urge to breed the head or climb on sideways. Patient mares was a must in having THEM calm while we got him off the wrong end and pointed him in the right direction . One mare kept turning around to try and point him in the right direction and giving him the most disgusted looks....the OTHER END stupid! When he got the hang of that we had him tease a TB mare. She was not a maiden but was a "LC" maiden. Had previously been bred by AI for sporthorse foals. We went to tease her. Well now that he had the hang of "It" he did take a hold of me and charge her hiney end. She was not quite ready and he WAS on the the reciving end of a hind foot. Fortunately in the chest and a glancing blow. No damage done. He did learn quick though! Just one kick was enough to teach him some respect. He then very carefully started to walk up to her. She lifted one toe off the ground and he threw it in reverse real quick. He let us walk him up to her head/shoulder for some sniffing and teasing. We did have to tease her for a couple more days before she was "ready" to break down. Ever since then he has been intelligent enough to approach carefully scope out the front end of a mare first! For general manners: prior to breeding him (we had him since he was 1 1/2) he has lived turned out with preggo mares. I really think he is happier not being alone and preggo mares sure taught him manners! During foaling season he does not get to live w/ his mares.
We have 2 geldings here. One he does not like all that much but tolerates as long as the gelding sorta stays away from him. As they are in a 10 acre field they can do that......and we have a newer QH gelding my hubby got that he seems to like a lot better.
FWIW: Stallions act a lot wilder around new mares than ones they know. When he breeds my own mares he lives out with he is not wild at all. Nary a rear. It's pretty boring event. Thankfully uneventful. The outside mares get harrier. I did a couple that were just covered and went home same day. That takes more handler help being on your toes. Having him familiar with the mare made my life SO much easier. Having the mare here a few days early to visit through stall bars or the fence (they both seem to respect the electric braid at the top) has made my life sooo much easier! My board rates are not steep, and I have not had any mare owners blak at my request to send the mare a couple days early for socialization. A local Paint breeder has been doing it this way for years. They just recently started doing AI. Til now they did LC only. Never had their stallion kicked in many years of breeding. They are a husband and wife with no other barn help/handlers. They did require the mare come ahead to be socialized as well. That might not work in the world of big breeding farms........but for little ole me with limited handler help it works great. I need things to go as smoothly as possible.
. One mare kept turning around to try and point him in the right direction and giving him the most disgusted looks....the OTHER END stupid! When he got the hang of that we had him tease a TB mare. She was not a maiden but was a "LC" maiden. Had previously been bred by AI for sporthorse foals. We went to tease her. Well now that he had the hang of "It" he did take a hold of me and charge her hiney end. She was not quite ready and he WAS on the the reciving end of a hind foot. Fortunately in the chest and a glancing blow. No damage done. He did learn quick though! Just one kick was enough to teach him some respect. He then very carefully started to walk up to her. She lifted one toe off the ground and he threw it in reverse real quick. He let us walk him up to her head/shoulder for some sniffing and teasing. We did have to tease her for a couple more days before she was "ready" to break down. Ever since then he has been intelligent enough to approach carefully scope out the front end of a mare first! For general manners: prior to breeding him (we had him since he was 1 1/2) he has lived turned out with preggo mares. I really think he is happier not being alone and preggo mares sure taught him manners! During foaling season he does not get to live w/ his mares.
We have 2 geldings here. One he does not like all that much but tolerates as long as the gelding sorta stays away from him. As they are in a 10 acre field they can do that......and we have a newer QH gelding my hubby got that he seems to like a lot better.
FWIW: Stallions act a lot wilder around new mares than ones they know. When he breeds my own mares he lives out with he is not wild at all. Nary a rear. It's pretty boring event. Thankfully uneventful. The outside mares get harrier. I did a couple that were just covered and went home same day. That takes more handler help being on your toes. Having him familiar with the mare made my life SO much easier. Having the mare here a few days early to visit through stall bars or the fence (they both seem to respect the electric braid at the top) has made my life sooo much easier! My board rates are not steep, and I have not had any mare owners blak at my request to send the mare a couple days early for socialization. A local Paint breeder has been doing it this way for years. They just recently started doing AI. Til now they did LC only. Never had their stallion kicked in many years of breeding. They are a husband and wife with no other barn help/handlers. They did require the mare come ahead to be socialized as well. That might not work in the world of big breeding farms........but for little ole me with limited handler help it works great. I need things to go as smoothly as possible.
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Karie
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I am against pasture breeding too... Hand breeding is all I will do.
There are too many risks with pasture breeding... The stallion isn't the smartest thing in the world once his mind is on breeding.. So getting kicked is a sure thing for an inexperienced stallion.
My guy is tough and wants to walk to to his girlfriends on his rear legs, and I am working on that right now.. Its not a pretty sight to these mares! If he were loose with them I cant imagine what he would be doing.
Scary!
There are too many risks with pasture breeding... The stallion isn't the smartest thing in the world once his mind is on breeding.. So getting kicked is a sure thing for an inexperienced stallion.
My guy is tough and wants to walk to to his girlfriends on his rear legs, and I am working on that right now.. Its not a pretty sight to these mares! If he were loose with them I cant imagine what he would be doing.
Scary!
Karie. Try a lip chain. They learn REAL quick that whoa means whoa. And if you can, don't let him breed the mare when he launches like that. Pull him down and try again so he learns there is no reward for that kind of behaviour. We just started a 3yo paint stud to breed and we had a few hairy encounters with him too. But he has it now and is really good. So is my friends new TB stalion. He still gets a bit wired if he has a new mare (just got a really nice grey into him and her REALLY likes her 
) but he has really good manners and a lot of respect for his handler. That, IMO, is paramount. A stud MUST respect you in order for you to breed him safely.
) but he has really good manners and a lot of respect for his handler. That, IMO, is paramount. A stud MUST respect you in order for you to breed him safely.A woman needs 2 animals in her life-the horse of her dreams, and a jackass to pay for it!
Breeding
I would recommend covering in hand with a young horse, this saves your horse from injury and bad experiences that can upset him in the future and you can control the sitiuation, many mares will kick out after being covered and a young in-experienced horse could get injured, we always used covering boots and a disinfected tail bandage. Always cover in the same area, perferably not a barn , unless you only intend to keep the horse for stud purposes. Many satllions are O.K with gelding, but if there are breeding mares present, this can lead to fights. There was a horrendous story recently here in the U.K. A stud in the South of England had a intruder who for some reason released one of the stallions by lifting a very heavy stable door, another stallion in the same yard, so angered by another stallion in its stable area, broke out of his stable and the stallions fought, one had to be put down when found the next morning with a broken leg from the fight and the other still is recovering.
Stallions will fight with geldings, if they feel that they are a danger to ther or their mares. Stallions can be very determined animals.
Handling is the key to keeping them sweet and they must have a regular routine. Please do not pen them in small pens. When turning out, tune out into a regular pasture and keep regular times i.e stallion a.m, other horses in the afternoon.
Chris
Stallions will fight with geldings, if they feel that they are a danger to ther or their mares. Stallions can be very determined animals.
Handling is the key to keeping them sweet and they must have a regular routine. Please do not pen them in small pens. When turning out, tune out into a regular pasture and keep regular times i.e stallion a.m, other horses in the afternoon.
Chris
what was so odd about it was BOTH stallions were grazing on the verge the next morning- so after a stallion defeats (in this case injured badly) his opponent they are friends???!!! 
That was weird but still felt for the poor stud owners!