I was told my mare has "old lines"

[lazyfranch]

Can someone give me some insight as to what that means? I was told not to breed her for a race horse as she doesn't have any of the modern popular horses in her, but to breed for a jumper?

http://www.pedigreequery.com/kiss+my+asterisk

[Alhoo]

Why don't you save yourself some trouble, and don't breed her at all.

[lazyfranch]

well thanks so much for your input. Apparently someone thought she was worth breeding. The man that owned her had plenty of top of the line horse flesh in his hands during his lifetime.

I've had plenty of sporthorse breeders ask me to please lease her to them. So she must not be that bad

Again, good thing not everyone thinks alike....

[StealingKat]

Hi,
Do you have a photo of this young lady? While she does not have a "commercial pedigree" I do believe she could have some foals . Never breed the paperwork, breed the mare if she is mentally and conformationally sound. Always remember to breed the best to the best to produce the best. There are lots of unwanted horses out there so just breed carefully and be prepared to offer the baby a home forever
Judith

[Pan Zareta]

well thanks so much for your input. Apparently someone thought she was worth breeding. The man that owned her had plenty of top of the line horse flesh in his hands during his lifetime.

I've had plenty of sporthorse breeders ask me to please lease her to them. So she must not be that bad

Again, good thing not everyone thinks alike....

She may not have the most popular catalogue page names in her pedigree, but the ones that are there are ones that liked to hear their feet rattle. They could win, and could hold up for more than a tiny handful of starts - which is more than can be said for a lot of the more modern names.

Your mare tail females to Court Dress (family 10-a) and that's a damline I'd NEVER give up on. If you're interested in breeding to race, check out what's produced winners w/ her close female family relatives and/or with mares by Capitol South (if you need APR info, pm me). CS produced a couple of decent jumpers here in TX, but he also had more than a few that made it to the track and could win.

[madelyn]

If you examine your mare's pedigree you will notice that several of the horses in her pedigree were near the end of their breeding careers. It is old bloodlines in a young horse. For example, Polynesian appears in the pedigree of perhaps thousands of Thoroughbreds, but extremely seldom in the third generation, resulting in no less than Black Polly in the fourth generation, thanks to Capitol South's dam.

Her particular branch of the female family appears extremely weak, crowned by the fact that the mare herself shows up on my 2003 APR as "1995 Unnamed". Apparently no one thought enough of the mare to even register a name for her with the Jockey Club. Or it could be that she was on a farm at the end of its breeding dynasty, and ended up never being used for anything at all and it could be entirely not her fault. It is up to you to suss out what really went on in her life for the last ten years.

Perhaps it would be best if you could provide your location and budget for a stud fee, etc., there are several participants here with sufficient knowledge to help you find a stallion that might help you revive your mare's lineage....

[Alhoo]

Are you going to train the foal to become a top eventer or something? Do you have a buyer ready to train the horse? I can't tell you how many horses I've seen bred by people that think they can get a nice sporthorse foal. Young, untrained, "potential," "started under saddle, finish the way you please" horses are a dime a dozen, not even worth the stud fee (unless it's an expensive stallion, of course, which your mare is not worth), certainly not worth the cost of upkeep of the mare and foal. If you don't want the foal, no one else does either.

[Maureen]

Alhoo, is there some background info you would like to share with us that feeds this open hostility you seem to be harbouring?

[Bill from WA]

Hi

It would help to know the circumstances surrounding your mare, and why she was never raced. Her dam, Maid of Magic, was a winner, but had only one foal to race, who was a winner. Her 2nd dam was a winner and producer of winners. Her 3rd dam was stakes placed, in a high class event (Schuylerville Stakes). The catalog page wouldn't be strong, but I have certainly seen worse. Her sire was a Grade 1 winner as a two-year-old, winning the Hopeful Stakes. As previously noted by Pan Zareta, she goes tail female to the conduit mare, Court Dress... not to be ignored. This family will lie dormant for awhile, and then jump up with a big one. Let me give you some examples. An unraced mare from this family produced a non-winner, who in turn was the dam of another non-winner, who in turn produced a Kentucky Derby winner (Charismatic). Another example, an unraced mare, produced a non-winner, who in turn produced a good winner, who was the dam of leading sire, Deputy Minister. This is the family of General Assembly, Exclusive Native and the sire, L'Natural as well as the two examples above, and many others.
This mare's conformation and temperament would be important factors. She comes from a solid family and is not too far removed from quality runners.

Bill

[ak1]

don't see what is not to like for a regional breeder in her pedigree (conformation, temperment, history aside). one just has to go into the proposition with eyes wide open to how rare it is to have a large dollar sales horse or winner on the track.

[FOS]

hi Bill from WA

You're such a diplomat...you wrote (for example) re: Lazyfranch's mare Kiss My Asterisk "The catalog page wouldn't be strong, but I have certainly seen worse." "She comes from a solid family and is not too far removed from quality runners."

What a way with words...certainly worthy of a couple of smiles

Best to you.

Respectfully

[lazyfranch]

I surely am not trying to breed her for a race horse, if I wanted, I have 6 TX stallions standing down the road from me that belong to friends. But, I alas don't have deep pockets to race horses.

however, I do have friends that are trainers, have ridden Prix St. George dressage, and were short listed in eventing for the olympics a few times. They are very interested in foals from this mare, and I am sure the foal would be sold as soon as born. However, this mare is my forever mare, and anything she has, will have a home with me forever.

You are right, she was unnamed for a very long time, alas why her name has Asterisk in it. The man that owned her was VERY ill for a very long time. he passed away earlier this year. He bred her to be a broodmare for race foals (he also trained polo horses) but because of his illness he was never able to follow through with his plans for her.

I was just interested in her pedigree as far as why she wouldn't be considered a good race horse broodmare, not that I planned on racing babies.

And Alhoo, you can have your opinion, we are all allowed one. However, let me tell you, that my mare is WORTH the price of any stallion I want to breed to her. She has the best temperment you could ever ask for in a mare. Like I said, she's a forever mare, she has people asking to use her to breed for the next 3 years. I just would like to point her in the direction that would provide for the best outcome.

Thanks y'all for all your constructive input, I honestly just love her and wanted some input as to what direction to point her. I also stand (and this will really tick of Alhoo) a Welsh Stallion, so she may even end up having Sport Pony babies in the future... GASP lol

[Pan Zareta]

At least one of Deposed's other granddaughters has produced a regional SW (Friendship S., 1984), B. J.s Chadamy 1982 g x Doc (unraced x Vaguely Noble) - Ann A Avenger x Staunch Avenger. I haven't looked up Doc's full record, but I doubt that he had more than 50 foals, and if B. J.'s Chadamy wasn't his only blacktype, I'm pretty sure he was one of a very small number.

[lazyfranch]

I do have pictures of her, but they are just of her hanging out in the pasture, she's in foal right now, and I had leased her out last year to a friend for an appendix baby. He never had her ultrasounded and she delivered twins, but lost them. So, her body is in very "round" shape. I consider her a large bodied mare.





She was gone for 1.5 years so excuse how she looks, she'll be gussied up soon enough. I was pretty upset about the twins, and then he let his stallion breed her again. I just got her home, found out he again did not have her ultrasounded for twins, so we're off to the vet for that.

Anyway, I've babbled enough and taken up enough of your time, thank y'all for your input. And Good Luck at the Track! I LOVE going to Retama and watching them run.

[Ramona]

In looking at this mare's breeding, common sense should suggest that hot to tepid, just might work with this mare. Breeding "hot to hot" (fashionable) often times produces just as many of these brittle boned, non runners as they do runners. This mare's mother had 5 outs, 2 wins and 1 place =$14,340K. Some of the hot blooded individuals don't even see the race track much less, win and earn $14K. I would worry more about one of the fasionable's hitting the scrap pile before I would worry about one of KMA's. I've seen produce from mare's in sales that are unraced, mediocre breeding, produced nothing to shout about, or 1st foal and simply because they are bred to a popular stallion, they bring big bucks. I think we often forget the foundation TB's in the bloodlines, that were strong, sound and carried some weight in the stakes races they won. Now a day trainer's shy away from races where they have to carry more than 126 lbs.