With Afleet Alex now joining his full brother, Unforgettable Max, at stud, I'm interested in hearing thoughts or comments on how you feel this will affect Afleet Alex's book by having a full brother already at stud (probably for a lower fee).
Also, I'd like to know if anyone has a historical prospective of instances where a full brother who was not as accomplished on the racetrack was just as successful, or even moreso, in the breeding shed.
I would also especially like to know if there has ever been an occurance where a full brother assumed stud duties upon the death of his sibling and was equally or even more successful.
Thank you everyone. This info will really help with some research I'm doing right now.
Laurie
Full Brothers At Stud: Opinions Please
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
Full Brothers At Stud: Opinions Please
So many pedigrees...so little time. (C)
I have to say I was very surprised to see that Unforgettable Max was going to be standing in KY for $7,500. It seems to me that his major claim to fame is that he's Alex's brother. At that price, I wouldn't expect him to receive much support at all.
The only full brothers who were both successful stallions that I can think of are Saint Ballado and Devil's Bag, and Graustark and His Majesty.
The only full brothers who were both successful stallions that I can think of are Saint Ballado and Devil's Bag, and Graustark and His Majesty.
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StealingKat
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In this case, I think you are way better off going to daddy than either of the sons. I could be wrong but everytime I look at Afleet Alex, I think of Hansel. 
I think Alex is going to be more expensive than his sire and Unforgettable Max while a tough, durable horse didn't show the class that some of the others in that fee range have on the racetrack.
I think Alex is going to be more expensive than his sire and Unforgettable Max while a tough, durable horse didn't show the class that some of the others in that fee range have on the racetrack.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
hi guys
Isn't it true...that Unforgettable Max is reputed to be the looker (as compared to his younger brother Afleet Alex)?
For what it's worth, Max sold for $210,000 as a Feb 2002 Select OBS 2-year-old in training. Afleet Alex on the other hand sold for $75,000 at a 2004 Fasig Maryland 2-year olds in traing sale.
Certainly many factors can come into play at any public auction (which could affect the final hammer price)...
...but the disparity in their sales prices seems HUGE...could Max have looked that much better and/or worked (or moved etc) that much better than Alex did?
The numbers might speak volumes (Alex bringing approx only 1/3 of what his full-brother Max brought when he sold two years prior)...regardless...Alex is THE brother that exposed HUGE championship caliber talent.
The database shows that Max made 23 lifetime starts...it'll be interesting to see what Alex ends up with (he has 12 as of now). It will also be interesting to view both Alex and Max as young stallions...and compare notes on the two.
Respectfully
Isn't it true...that Unforgettable Max is reputed to be the looker (as compared to his younger brother Afleet Alex)?
For what it's worth, Max sold for $210,000 as a Feb 2002 Select OBS 2-year-old in training. Afleet Alex on the other hand sold for $75,000 at a 2004 Fasig Maryland 2-year olds in traing sale.
Certainly many factors can come into play at any public auction (which could affect the final hammer price)...
...but the disparity in their sales prices seems HUGE...could Max have looked that much better and/or worked (or moved etc) that much better than Alex did?
The numbers might speak volumes (Alex bringing approx only 1/3 of what his full-brother Max brought when he sold two years prior)...regardless...Alex is THE brother that exposed HUGE championship caliber talent.
The database shows that Max made 23 lifetime starts...it'll be interesting to see what Alex ends up with (he has 12 as of now). It will also be interesting to view both Alex and Max as young stallions...and compare notes on the two.
Respectfully
hi guys
When it comes to full-brothers...lets not forget Saint Ballado and Devil's Bag.
An example of one brother (Devil's Bag) who was the champion 2-yo of his year (winning 5 of 5 starts)...then syndicated upon his retirement (after winning 3 of 4 starts as a 3-yo) for $1mil per share...
...and the other brother (G2 winner Saint Ballado) who received very little fanfare upon his retirement...but proved to be the FAR superior sire.
Respectfully
When it comes to full-brothers...lets not forget Saint Ballado and Devil's Bag.
An example of one brother (Devil's Bag) who was the champion 2-yo of his year (winning 5 of 5 starts)...then syndicated upon his retirement (after winning 3 of 4 starts as a 3-yo) for $1mil per share...
...and the other brother (G2 winner Saint Ballado) who received very little fanfare upon his retirement...but proved to be the FAR superior sire.
Respectfully
Hi Folks,
Nice to see you all again. Sorry for the hiatus (sales season).
The sales prices, Max @$@210k and Alex @$75k aren't solid guides to their conformation since they were both sold as 2yos. It's probable that they both looked good and worked well. In Alex's sale year (2004), Northern Afleets' 2yo sales average was less than 40% of Max's sale year (2002) so their prices may indicate more similarity than difference.
Full brothers that were both successful at stud isn't really the point since Alex and Max are both just embarking on stud careers in 2006. The question should be whether a lesser brother on the track, with less support at stud, can be successful and the answer is yes.
ONLY in full brothers do we see a pattern of the lesser brother outperforming the better brother at stud. Not For Love / Rhythm, Saint Ballado / Devil's Bag and Vice Regent / Viceregal as examples. All three lesser brothers were the stallions that their full siblings were supposed to be. You could make a case for His Majesty and Graustark but the point is that it's possible for both brothers to be good stallions. An interesting current case is Mineshaft / Rock Slide.
It's unusual for 1/2 brothers to outperform their betters and they tend to perform more as expected as we see with A.P. Indy / Summer Squall / Honor Grades / Tiger Ridge or Touch Gold / With Approval.
Unforgettable Max has the race record and probably the conformation to have been given a chance at stud despite his brother Afleet Alex. Given his brother and his other qualifications, $7,500 isn't extraordinary and there's a possibility that he could be a better sire than Alex.
StealingKat, other than with Maggy Hawk, Northern Afleet has been a sire of racehorses, not much else. I understand your question and in some cases I'd be inclined to breed to the sire of the stallion prospect, but in this case I might choose one of these brothers over their father.
A note about this full brother phenomenon, it's better to breed to the lesser full brother on his bubble. A LOT of money was made by people breeding to Saint Ballado (especially) and Not For Love in their 3rd, 4th and 5th years at stud.
Regards,
Pete
Nice to see you all again. Sorry for the hiatus (sales season).
The sales prices, Max @$@210k and Alex @$75k aren't solid guides to their conformation since they were both sold as 2yos. It's probable that they both looked good and worked well. In Alex's sale year (2004), Northern Afleets' 2yo sales average was less than 40% of Max's sale year (2002) so their prices may indicate more similarity than difference.
Full brothers that were both successful at stud isn't really the point since Alex and Max are both just embarking on stud careers in 2006. The question should be whether a lesser brother on the track, with less support at stud, can be successful and the answer is yes.
ONLY in full brothers do we see a pattern of the lesser brother outperforming the better brother at stud. Not For Love / Rhythm, Saint Ballado / Devil's Bag and Vice Regent / Viceregal as examples. All three lesser brothers were the stallions that their full siblings were supposed to be. You could make a case for His Majesty and Graustark but the point is that it's possible for both brothers to be good stallions. An interesting current case is Mineshaft / Rock Slide.
It's unusual for 1/2 brothers to outperform their betters and they tend to perform more as expected as we see with A.P. Indy / Summer Squall / Honor Grades / Tiger Ridge or Touch Gold / With Approval.
Unforgettable Max has the race record and probably the conformation to have been given a chance at stud despite his brother Afleet Alex. Given his brother and his other qualifications, $7,500 isn't extraordinary and there's a possibility that he could be a better sire than Alex.
StealingKat, other than with Maggy Hawk, Northern Afleet has been a sire of racehorses, not much else. I understand your question and in some cases I'd be inclined to breed to the sire of the stallion prospect, but in this case I might choose one of these brothers over their father.
A note about this full brother phenomenon, it's better to breed to the lesser full brother on his bubble. A LOT of money was made by people breeding to Saint Ballado (especially) and Not For Love in their 3rd, 4th and 5th years at stud.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms