for anyone who is considering getting into thoroughbred breeding (to sell commercially viable foals), i would like to share with you how expensive your carry bills will get...
i've just added up all my bills since i bought my mare in nov 04 through dec 05, about 13 months and a bit. here's the breakdown:
boarding - $16,000
vet bills - $10,000
insurance - $12,500
to be honest, i knew it was going to be expensive from day one, but i really didn't think the bills can add up that much... and that doesn't even include stud fees!
i guess i just can't stress enough, for anyone who is interested in the business, you really have to come up with a solid investment plan. you have to remember that you'll be incurring costs for almost 2 years before you get the proceeds from the sale of the yearling.
here's some general guideline i would recommend (this is a guideline with profitability acceptable to me given the investment risk). i hope you'll find it helpful...
for someone who needs to board his mare:
mare purchase - $75,000+ (in foal to stallion with medium cover 30K+)
boarding fees till yearling sales (mare, yearling, new foal) - $25-30K
vet bills - $15-20K
insurance - $10K (assuming purchasing prospective foal ins.)
stud fee - $15K+
yearling sale - hopefully $60K+
for someone who already has his own facility, he can consider mares around $40-50K in foal to freshman stallions with 15K cover...
feed and other - 5K
vet bills - $10K
insurance - $6K
stud fee - $10K
yearling sale - hopefully $40K+
i hope this will help anyone who's considering getting into the business. i can honestly say my mare is the best investment i've ever made, it's given me joy and fulfillment, but god, it's expensive!
breeding maintenance costs - beginners pls read!
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Morningside
- Maiden Special Weight
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:13 pm
- Location: New York, NY
Re: breeding maintenance costs - beginners pls read!
Morningside wrote:for anyone who is considering getting into thoroughbred breeding (to sell commercially viable foals), i would like to share with you how expensive your carry bills will get...
i've just added up all my bills since i bought my mare in nov 04 through dec 05, about 13 months and a bit. here's the breakdown:
boarding - $16,000
vet bills - $10,000
insurance - $12,500
to be honest, i knew it was going to be expensive from day one, but i really didn't think the bills can add up that much... and that doesn't even include stud fees!
i guess i just can't stress enough, for anyone who is interested in the
business, you really have to come up with a solid investment plan. you have to remember that you'll be incurring costs for almost 2 years before you get the proceeds from the sale of the yearling.
here's some general guideline i would recommend (this is a guideline with profitability acceptable to me given the investment risk). i hope you'll find it helpful...
for someone who needs to board his mare:
mare purchase - $75,000+ (in foal to stallion with medium cover 30K+)
boarding fees till yearling sales (mare, yearling, new foal) - $25-30K
vet bills - $15-20K
insurance - $10K (assuming purchasing prospective foal ins.)
stud fee - $15K+
yearling sale - hopefully $60K+
for someone who already has his own facility, he can consider mares around $40-50K in foal to freshman stallions with 15K cover...
feed and other - 5K
vet bills - $10K
insurance - $6K
stud fee - $10K
yearling sale - hopefully $40K+
i hope this will help anyone who's considering getting into the business. i can honestly say my mare is the best investment i've ever made, it's given me joy and fulfillment, but god, it's expensive!
I'd recommend you shop around a bit(quite a bit)... you are being WAY overcharged in ALL areas, IMO. That vet bill borders on extortion and your day rates are ridiculous if you are paying for a single mare... foal included. You can do much, much better without giving up top quality care. For what you paid you should be able to board 3 mares(yes, even in Kentucky).
Morningside, I own my farm and can honestly say I've NEVER had those kind of expenses, in fact I can afford about ten mares for those expenses. I bred 13 mares last year. My vet bills for the year were $2K. That includes three emergency visits, stitch up a laceration, treat a possible colic, etc. It costs me between $30-45K a year, depending on how much hired help.. and I currently have 34 horses. Boarding a broodmare CAN be expensive, but doesn't have to be. What on earth could your mare need from a vet to cost THAT MUCH??
Vet bills for a broodmare, annually:
Vaccinations (EWEE, RFT, West Nile) $30
Palpate/ultrasound prior to and after breeding, up to $100 (maybe times 3); palpate is $20, ultrasound is $50
Maybe uterine flush $65
Maybe Caslik $35
Maybe uterine culture $35
Vet call charges are shared among several horses, usually, an owner of a mare at my farm might chip in five bucks.
Farrier is $20 every eight weeks, so about $160 a year.
What are you being charged for?
Vet bills for a broodmare, annually:
Vaccinations (EWEE, RFT, West Nile) $30
Palpate/ultrasound prior to and after breeding, up to $100 (maybe times 3); palpate is $20, ultrasound is $50
Maybe uterine flush $65
Maybe Caslik $35
Maybe uterine culture $35
Vet call charges are shared among several horses, usually, an owner of a mare at my farm might chip in five bucks.
Farrier is $20 every eight weeks, so about $160 a year.
What are you being charged for?
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
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Morningside
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- Posts: 205
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:13 pm
- Location: New York, NY
yeah, i do know i'm paying pretty high board and vet rates... i board my mare at gracefield at 27.50/day and rood and riddle is definitely expensive.
and yes, i realize there are farms that do a pretty good job for 15-17/day, but i have an older mare with laminitus (is that how you spell it?), and ben walden does an extremely good job with these older mares... plus he's got 4+ acres per stall, etc etc. and all things considered, it's just not worth going to another farm and risking any decline in quality care...
and yes, i realize there are farms that do a pretty good job for 15-17/day, but i have an older mare with laminitus (is that how you spell it?), and ben walden does an extremely good job with these older mares... plus he's got 4+ acres per stall, etc etc. and all things considered, it's just not worth going to another farm and risking any decline in quality care...
Morningside wrote:yeah, i do know i'm paying pretty high board and vet rates... i board my mare at gracefield at 27.50/day and rood and riddle is definitely expensive.
and yes, i realize there are farms that do a pretty good job for 15-17/day, but i have an older mare with laminitus (is that how you spell it?), and ben walden does an extremely good job with these older mares... plus he's got 4+ acres per stall, etc etc. and all things considered, it's just not worth going to another farm and risking any decline in quality care...
Appreciate your reply and it's your mare and you must do what you think is best. Still, I must ask if you are trying to keep your head above water in this game costs have to come into the equation at some point. I truly believe you could have had your mare cared for every bit as well for 1/3 the cost, of which the remaining profit would go to your bottom line at sales time.
I've seen SO MANY good owners come and go over the years(decades) in this game all because of "cost overruns"... most of which were inflicted by people in the industry more concerned about "what can I get now" then building a lasting relationship with clients.
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Morningside
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- Posts: 205
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:13 pm
- Location: New York, NY
hi horsenuts, i think it's all a function of your target market...
when i entered the business, i looked at the risk/reward in all segments of the market, and in the end, it was my decision that breeding for the upper segment of the market gives me the best risk/reward profile. so my target market is the 100K+ yearlings.
now, with that in mind, you need to know what the buyers are looking for in that particular segment of the market, and one of the considerations is where the foal is raised... so if you pick one farm or the other, the rest kind of just comes with it. ie. i picked gracefield, and i got stuck with rood&riddle. and to be frank, i was myself quite surprised at the vet bills. and i think for a couple of months, some of the vet charges actually went into the gracefield bill, so in reality, my board bill was probably a bit lower, and my vet bill was probably even a bit higher...
when i entered the business, i looked at the risk/reward in all segments of the market, and in the end, it was my decision that breeding for the upper segment of the market gives me the best risk/reward profile. so my target market is the 100K+ yearlings.
now, with that in mind, you need to know what the buyers are looking for in that particular segment of the market, and one of the considerations is where the foal is raised... so if you pick one farm or the other, the rest kind of just comes with it. ie. i picked gracefield, and i got stuck with rood&riddle. and to be frank, i was myself quite surprised at the vet bills. and i think for a couple of months, some of the vet charges actually went into the gracefield bill, so in reality, my board bill was probably a bit lower, and my vet bill was probably even a bit higher...
Well, Morningside, all that matters is that you are happy with your mare's care, but PLEASE don't, for one minute, believe that your expenses are anywhere near typical. Even a laminitic mare, on Lamina Saver, shouldn't run to the equivalent of a $1k a month retainer to her doc. As for Gracefield, $27.50/day is $10,037.50 per year. Where is the other $6K?
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Morningside wrote:hi horsenuts, i think it's all a function of your target market...
when i entered the business, i looked at the risk/reward in all segments of the market, and in the end, it was my decision that breeding for the upper segment of the market gives me the best risk/reward profile. so my target market is the 100K+ yearlings.
now, with that in mind, you need to know what the buyers are looking for in that particular segment of the market, and one of the considerations is where the foal is raised... so if you pick one farm or the other, the rest kind of just comes with it. ie. i picked gracefield, and i got stuck with rood&riddle. and to be frank, i was myself quite surprised at the vet bills. and i think for a couple of months, some of the vet charges actually went into the gracefield bill, so in reality, my board bill was probably a bit lower, and my vet bill was probably even a bit higher...
FWIW, I know of several boarding farms that have sold numerous offspring over the years for 6 & 7 figures who don't charge anywhere close to that.
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Morningside
- Maiden Special Weight
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:13 pm
- Location: New York, NY
<whew!> Those numbers would definitely scare off the faint-hearted!
Morningside, just want to say this is in no way a critism, because you are obviously concerned that your mare has top-notch care and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but with those kind of expenses I don't think many of us could stay in the business for long.
I realize my experience is totally different from yours because 1) I'm in New Mexico, and 2) I have my own facility to house my mares for 8-9 months out of the year (and I'm the one out there mucking stalls and cleaning water tanks....such a glamorous life
), but I didn't spend HALF what you spent and that was not on one mare but four (six actually, counting the old companion mare and the military mount that was boarded in Michigan for 8 months) and that's including stud fees, tack and barn supplies!
The vet costs really surprised me...but also the insurance costs. Unless your mare is extremely expensive and insured to the max, $6K seems out of sight!
Just want to help clarify for anyone out there who is thinking about getting into the industry, it isn't necessarily this expensive. It certainly CAN be...but there are ways to reduce costs and make it somewhat affordable.
Like....board your horses in New Mexico and take advantage of our great state incentive program!!! (<<<shameless plug!)
Laurie
Morningside, just want to say this is in no way a critism, because you are obviously concerned that your mare has top-notch care and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but with those kind of expenses I don't think many of us could stay in the business for long.
I realize my experience is totally different from yours because 1) I'm in New Mexico, and 2) I have my own facility to house my mares for 8-9 months out of the year (and I'm the one out there mucking stalls and cleaning water tanks....such a glamorous life
), but I didn't spend HALF what you spent and that was not on one mare but four (six actually, counting the old companion mare and the military mount that was boarded in Michigan for 8 months) and that's including stud fees, tack and barn supplies!
The vet costs really surprised me...but also the insurance costs. Unless your mare is extremely expensive and insured to the max, $6K seems out of sight!
Just want to help clarify for anyone out there who is thinking about getting into the industry, it isn't necessarily this expensive. It certainly CAN be...but there are ways to reduce costs and make it somewhat affordable.
Like....board your horses in New Mexico and take advantage of our great state incentive program!!! (<<<shameless plug!)
Laurie
So many pedigrees...so little time. (C)
Geez, that's a lot of money.
I agree, Morningside, people new to the business need to know going in how expensive it will be from start to finish. All the care, hay, straw, and vet costs really add up.
I have a friend who wanted her maiden mare to foal in Kentucky so she brought her to me, heavy in foal, in December of last year. I charged $450 per month for the mare and foaled her out for no additional fee. The foal ran up a bit of a vet bill as it started running a fever. Then there was the vet bill for palps for next year's offspring. Total vet bill around $600.
We missed the foal heat because the breeding sheds weren't open yet and then had a bit a trouble with the next cycle. But the mare was in foal and ready to go home by April. Total bill, not counting the travel time for my friend was around $2,850. She has no idea how many financial breaks I gave her...
The friendship no longer exists because my good buddy says I ran up her bills. Apparently she is mad as heck because we missed a cycle and then her mare did not take the first time she went to the shed. Somehow thats all my fault.
People need to be aware of what they are getting themselves into. There is no immediate turn around in the breeding dollar.
I agree, Morningside, people new to the business need to know going in how expensive it will be from start to finish. All the care, hay, straw, and vet costs really add up.
I have a friend who wanted her maiden mare to foal in Kentucky so she brought her to me, heavy in foal, in December of last year. I charged $450 per month for the mare and foaled her out for no additional fee. The foal ran up a bit of a vet bill as it started running a fever. Then there was the vet bill for palps for next year's offspring. Total vet bill around $600.
We missed the foal heat because the breeding sheds weren't open yet and then had a bit a trouble with the next cycle. But the mare was in foal and ready to go home by April. Total bill, not counting the travel time for my friend was around $2,850. She has no idea how many financial breaks I gave her...
The friendship no longer exists because my good buddy says I ran up her bills. Apparently she is mad as heck because we missed a cycle and then her mare did not take the first time she went to the shed. Somehow thats all my fault.
People need to be aware of what they are getting themselves into. There is no immediate turn around in the breeding dollar.
My heart belongs to Our Mims, 1977 three year old filly champion, March 8, 1974- December 9, 2003
Re: breeding maintenance costs - beginners pls read!
[
feed and other - 5K
vet bills - $10K
insurance - $6K
stud fee - $10K
yearling sale - hopefully $40K+
It may be overly optimistic to think you will get $40K for a $10K stud fee. The rule is typically the yearling will bring 2 1/2 times the fee but typically with a fee this low the median is not that good. Now if you have a super nice yearling, yeah, but you're playing the averages here, right?
feed and other - 5K
vet bills - $10K
insurance - $6K
stud fee - $10K
yearling sale - hopefully $40K+
It may be overly optimistic to think you will get $40K for a $10K stud fee. The rule is typically the yearling will bring 2 1/2 times the fee but typically with a fee this low the median is not that good. Now if you have a super nice yearling, yeah, but you're playing the averages here, right?
ZiaLand wrote:<whew!> Those numbers would definitely scare off the faint-hearted!
Laurie
Then, you really don't want to see MY bills either
Which is WHY I am looking to get into a farm of my own QUICK
What does it cost to INSURE the farm against liability if you have other people's horses or against liability for injury to farm help?
Seriously, it would be helpful if you guys who do have farms (no matter what the area, would list what it costs to start a farm up and then the regular monthly expenses.
Seriously, maybe we could start a section of the board called BIZ STUFF
A virtual SBA mentoring kind of thing. Have I lost it again. 
I love my horses...I love my horses...Honey? Is the white wagon here yet!
I know...we need a co-op farm BJ wrote:ZiaLand wrote:<whew!> Those numbers would definitely scare off the faint-hearted!
Laurie
Then, you really don't want to see MY bills either
What does it cost to INSURE the farm against liability if you have other people's horses or against liability for injury to farm help?
Seriously, it would be helpful if you guys who do have farms (no matter what the area, would list what it costs to start a farm up and then the regular monthly expenses.
Seriously, maybe we could start a section of the board called BIZ STUFF
I love my horses...I love my horses...Honey? Is the white wagon here yet!
Funny you mention "Co-op Farm" because I have thought the same thing for years. Most mare owners only have a handful of mares and really have no need nor the time/expense for a full scale farm. A type of Co-op would have a place, IMO. Not only in Kentucky but all other states as well. A business plan would need to be drawn up and rules strictly adhered to... but it could be done. Finding a top foreman/mgr would be critical for success... but they are out there if one looks.
I have kept a broodmare in France, what we think it,s expensive. an 18 year old one, with bad feet and she have cost me 500 dollar a month, shoeiing 100 dollar in 2 months. Vet bills for a year include stichting everything 2000 dollar a year. In stable at night, and was in the pasture at daytime.
We found it costly, in our country is it about 75% from the above mentioned prizes. But our soil is so bad, you can,t keep tb,s on it.
I kept a foal as well, total cost up to 2 year old 14.000 dollar include a very cheap stallionfee 2.500 dollar till 31 st of december
Maybe something for an additional on this board.
Newbies think of these
costs to come.!!!!! Starting with breeding.
We found it costly, in our country is it about 75% from the above mentioned prizes. But our soil is so bad, you can,t keep tb,s on it.
I kept a foal as well, total cost up to 2 year old 14.000 dollar include a very cheap stallionfee 2.500 dollar till 31 st of december
Maybe something for an additional on this board.
Newbies think of these
costs to come.!!!!! Starting with breeding.
Last edited by BenB on Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.