How do you go about claiming a horse if you aren't an owner?

[summerhorse]

By that I mean aren't already a RACEhorse owner (with license and all that stuff). Do you have to become a licensed owner just to claim a horse off a track and take him home? I would assume you would find a trainer there that would claim the horse for you, does the money have to be in place before the race (I remember reading something about a "bank" in Jane Smiley's book on having racehorses).

So assuming I had the money at the ready to wire to (someone) and I found a trainer I could trust (by word of mouth I guess?) to go put in the claim is that all I would have to do? Call the trainer and say when X horse is running please claim him for me?

[austique]

You would have to find a trainer or an owner who would claim the horse for you and the money would have to be in their horseman's account before the claim is dropped. Then depending on the track's rules the horse may have to stay on the track for 30 days either due to movement restrictions or the no sales deal.

[Roguelet]

In Indiana, you can submit an owner's application and the required fee, as well as the name of a trainer who will assume care of the horse after a claim, to the commission. If you are deemed eligible for an owner's license, you may be issued a claim certificate. The claim certificate expires 30 days after it's issued, or upon the claim of a horse, or upon issuance or denial of an owner's license... whichever comes first. A claim certificate can be renewed by the stewards during the same year.

Then, if you have the claim money on deposit with the horseman's bookkeeper, you can use your claim certificate as an "owner's license" of sorts, and you can claim a horse.

[summerhorse]

Thanks! They sure know how to complicate things.

Now if you were not planning on racing the horse why would you have to leave him at the track? Don't the papers stay and the horse can come home? I can't imagine they can hold your horse hostage at racetrack fees when you have no intention of running him/her again. I can understand them not wanting you to run it again somewhere else which is why the papers would stay but the horse??

[austique]

Summerhorse,

I'm not really sure how the logistics work. We always bought privately when we saw a claimer we liked. You might try calling the trainer that has the horse you are interested in and saying "Hey, I'm interested in so and so horse. Could you have the owners call me if they want to sell?" You may be able to get him below the claiming price without fiddling around with claiming him and if they don't want to sell. You can just claim him and go .

[wilf]

Hey Summer, its all very easy to do , however you must abide by the same rules that we all do. Roguelet pretty much spelled it out as it is but no one is holding your horse hostage at the track. I have heard this myth before about not being able to take the horse home after you claim it. That may be a trainers ruse but here are the facts. To legally claim a horse you must first of all be a licenced owner in good standing in the jurisdiction in which you are wishing to claim. Secondly you can be eligible to claim by either running a horse at the meet already even if it is in the previous race that day or by paying for an original claim slip where you bona-fides are not in question. You must have a licenced trainer named to assume responsibility for the said horse at time of the claim and lodge the claim within the proper time-frame before the race, usually 15 minutes, and have the required moneys plus taxes lodged with the horsemans bookeeper at the time of claim. Once the starting Gate opens for the race you own the horse for all intents and purposes except as far as prizemoney earned is concerned. Unfortunately, if the horse is injured or breaks down in the race then its all down to you from there on in. Well Summer I know it all sounds like a nightmare but having claimed many horses myself< and lost a bunch > its an exciting time, and if you do your homework it can be a good days work! On the other hand if you wish to claim through 3rd parties then beware as it can become expensive, All the best.

[summerhorse]

Who is talking about illegal procedures and what is with the high and mighty attitude? I asked a simple question that many on here probably would like to know, just for curiosities sake if nothing else. If I am in FL and I want to claim a horse in CA or NM or TX and I don't plan to race it, I just want to bring it home I pretty much HAVE to deal with other parties now don't I? As a non racehorse owner (I do rescue horses and don't have an interest in playing the claiming/racing/losing/claiming game (fun for some, not for me) I have NO idea how one would go about claiming a horse from a far away track and I don't really want to fly out there to do it myself if I can hire honest horseman to do it for me. there is no NEED for me to fly out there and do it myself if I can find a trainer who will claim the horse and take care of it until transport is arranged. Does ANYone in the claiming game fly around to every track that has a horse running they like to claim it? Not in the books (bios) I've read so far.

My next question was to the statement that the horse was not allowed to leave the grounds until the meet was over or for 30 days (whichever, heard both various places). I had heard the exact opposite, that the horse may not race but he can leave at any time, just his papers stay there til the meet ends. Which for a non race bound horse is no problem. Why should I (or anyone) buying a claimer for another career spend track board fees and training fees for a horse that is retired? So do these rules vary by track? Does any track require the horses physical presence on the grounds until the meet ends or for any time period if you leave the papers?

I do know that many horses up for claim cost a LOT more when you try to buy them privately (like double sometimes) since the owner will not be having a shot at a purse in a private sale. And even though some of these horses aren't really worth what they claiming price is PLUS now they know you want it, the price can go up even more. Unless you have an in with that horse's connections to casually inquire about his status I wouildn't be advertising my interest in him then asking if he was for sale! Talk about sucker written across my forehead...

[Sysonby]

The reason you find it so onerous is that the process is not designed to do what you want it to do. Rather it is a mechanism for horsemen and real owners to determine the value of their racing stock which is intended to race at that circuit. Remember that typically no one is paying the track board so it needs some assurance that people aren't just parking a horse in a stall for free, that in fact the horse will compete at the track. Moreover, as an outsider, expect resistance if you casually bandy around words like "rescue" instead of retire. Some people just might take offense and you just may make it harder for the next person who wants to retire one.

In all seriousness, why don't you contact one of the Canters for assistance? They know the lay of the land and who should be in their program but they haven't been able to convince the connections. Otherwise, you're just guessing and trying to 'liberate' a horse that may not need it.

Now if its Bluesthestandard you're talking about, he'll probably run back at either $25,000 or $32,000. (There's a horse shortage in California and sometimes those race get combined but they go under either tag.) Don't forget the 8.5 % sales tax. Either way, you're talking about $30-35,000.

If you think that is a rescue, perhaps I can convince you to liberate some of mine.

[sstacy19]

Summer Horse,
I think that you misunderstood what Wilf was telling you. He is not by any means trying to sound "High and Mighty". He is just saying that if you go through a third person instead of getting your own license it could get shady. (I think ) Don't want to miss quote him. Trust me Wilf is not the type to come on and insult your effort. He was just trying to help.

[Roguelet]

We've been prepared to claim twice in states where we were not currently licensed, but both times ended up purchasing privately instead of going through with the claim.

Once, we were able to buy the mare from the trainer for less than what she was running for, by having our trainer call and ask him if he wanted to sell the mare.

The other time, we talked to the trainer ahead of time and he told us not to worry about claiming her, he would just sell her to us for the claim price right after the race, which he did.

In both cases, the trainers of the horses were awesome to deal with, and we saved money by contacting them privately. I'm quite certain it doesn't always work out that nicely, but we've been lucky.

In Indiana, there is no rule that a horse (or it's papers) can't leave the track once it's been claimed. The rule that pertains to this states, "A horse claimed in this jurisdiction shall not race outside Indiana until after the conclusion of the race meet without the permission of the stewards."

[louis finochio]

If you want to claim the TB for breeding then what I am going to tell you doesnt apply. If you want to claim for racing, then you will want to do the following.

Tell the trainer to offer the groom of the horse a $100.00 bill and he will tell you all about the horse good or bad, and his habits.

This is the way it was done in the old days, under the table. Better to spend the $100.00 than to claim a retread that is ready to breakdown.

[summerhorse]

Roguelet, thanks for the sensible reply!

Synsoby I am not trying to buy Bluesthestandard. Or any particular horse at this time. I just wanted to know HOW to claim a horse in another state if I were so inclined to do so. And "I" didn't mention rescue. I said CLAIM. As in BUY. For my own reasons whether to ride or as a broodmare or a pasture ornament or whatever.

I hardly considering buying a horse at the asking price a liberation or a rescue. That sounds like a sale to me. And considering most claiming horses' relative worth as a non racehorse a darn good one for the owner.

I certainly would not be dumb enough to go to any trainer or owner and tell them I wanted to "rescue" their horse! That's a good way to triple your price if they will even sell him/her. On this and other boards people have stated that when they tried to buy a horse privately the price shot up (and that was explained by the lack of a purse the horse could be running for). I'm sure not every owner/trainer is that way but apparently some are and as a non race owner I don't know who is who.

I was asking for ANYone who wanted to claim ANY horse ANY where what the procedures were to do so. As any horse "I" claimed would NOT be racing I wanted clarification on the leaves the grounds things (which seems to have some confusion about it!). Nowhere did I mention illegal or shady dealings and I resent Wilf's implication highly that I would as I do the implication that I thought I should get to play by different rules. If you read my post I was asking WHAT the rules were. I DID ask would I have to find a (local) trainer to claim the horse for me? (who would be by definition a third party ) For all I knew I could put in a claim myself and then arrange for a trainer or agent to pick up a horse, I didn't KNOW, which is why I was asking!

No board at the track? Well maybe you don't write a check to the track itself but those daily trainer fees sure sound like board to ME. Call me crazy...

[Sysonby]

Synsoby I am not trying to buy Bluesthestandard. Or any particular horse at this time. I just wanted to know HOW to claim a horse in another state if I were so inclined to do so. And "I" didn't mention rescue. I said CLAIM. As in BUY. For my own reasons whether to ride or as a broodmare or a pasture ornament or whatever.

Actually where I drew the rescue inference is from what you said which was this:

As a non racehorse owner (I do rescue horses and don't have an interest in playing the claiming/racing/losing/claiming game (fun for some, not for me) I have NO idea how one would go about claiming a horse from a far away track and I don't really want to fly out there to do it myself if I can hire honest horseman to do it for me. there is no NEED for me to fly out there and do it myself if I can find a trainer who will claim the horse and take care of it until transport is arranged.

which sure sounds like you are planning to "rescue" some claiming horses. I'm just telling you in a nice way that your mission will probably go better if you don't use that word not just because you'll attract the thieves (and you will) but you'll also offend the good people.

As for horse value, it's the same all over. A $20,000 jumper isn't worth ten cents as a racer, while that claiming horse could legitimately be worth $50,000 to a racetracker and only $2500 to a hunter jumper rider at the same time and in the same condition. It's all about training, condition and who's willing to open up the checkbook.

[wilf]

Sorry about that Summer, I am having a tough time at the moment with some highly strung horses that are ready to run but I am not ready myself. My explanation of the rules pretty much covered it but Iwas also anxious that you do it with all your ducks in a row maintaining your obvious integrity. You see it can get very murky if it is done any other way despite your best intentions for the long term.Do not listen to the post that suggests spending $100 to get the low-down as news travels VERY fast and beware using other parties to claim for you even though it is frequently done as that may cost you dearly and the Stewards and Track Security jump all over anything that smacks of hidden ownership and consequently can void the claim. I read my post again and it is a bit salty so Ishall edit quickly for posterity. Sorry again and keep up the good work. Oh by the way I have visited your website and was amazed by the equine miniatures but what does"repaint only" mean?

[summerhorse]

That $100 bill is an excellent idea!

That's OK Wilf. I didn't mean for someone to claim in their name, I was actually meaning walking up to the box and putting IN the claim, that's all. Since it's a long walk from NW FL (even to tracks IN Florida...).

Synsoby I put in that I rescue horses (among other things) to explain that while I don't RACE horses I do HAVE them and why I would not intend to be claiming to race (at a track across the country anyway!). But like I said when you are buying a horse, that is not rescue, that is a sale. Once you pay for the horse it is up to the owner what to do with that horse and that may mean retirement, broodmare, or a new career.

Now if a horse is two steps from breaking down and that $100 investment revealed that THEN I'd try a private sale, just casually contacting the trainer and mentioning that I really liked the horse and was looking for a companion for mine and was he for sale, how much and make a realistic counteroffer. I guess that might be considered a rescue of sorts but it is still a sale.

A timely one for the horse but still a sale.

A rescue is when you go to the livestock auction or the feedlot and buy a horse from the killer buyer or you pay too much for that starving horse down the road just to not have to see him starve to DEATH. Or adopting a horse from a horse rescue group.