Service stripe and Outflanker

[el camino]

Opinions on these two stallions. They both had very few foals in their early crops, did well and have suddenly had big books two seasons in a row. What about breeding to them now so these big crops will 2,3,4 when the resulting foal would be at a yearling auction. Hopefully they will produce more big runners since they have had more and hopefully better mares. Or conversely maybe the larger sample size will merely show them to be flukes when they had a small crop and just one or two big runnners. Thoughts?

[madelyn]

In the dim recesses of my Age-Activated-ADD memory, seems that regarding Service Stripe, he was an obscure stallion of nice pedigree but not tremendous race record, standing in Michigan for $500 when he sired the homebred filly, Cashier's Dream. Cashier's Dream ran beyond the owner's wildest expectation, earning over $423K and beating nice company in KY (being sold near the end of her career to Team Valor), enabling her modest owners to move Service Stripe to KY (she earned SS the offers to come here), etc. The rest is history, he is at Crestwood.

With respect to Outflanker, no stories at all come to mind and he moved to Maryland from Florida, and I personally can see no evidence at all explaining any rise in his popularity.....

[Mahubah]

If you go over to the Blood-Horse's website (www.bloodhorse.com), and click on "Stallion Register," you can use this to check on Outflanker's current record. Put his name in the appropriate box, click, and you'll get a stallion page with a link to a free equineline.com stallion summary.

Outflanker actually hasn't been doing too badly, although his current two-year-olds (37 in 2004) aren't lighting up the track so far (10 starters, 5 winners, no SWs to date). Of his 91 foals three and up, six have won stakes at some point in their careers and I think 53 have won -- not too bad numbers for a regional sire, especially since he's also moving up his mares pretty well if you look at the AEI versus the CI. How he'll do in Maryland is anyone's guess, but he seems to have been making pretty fair use of his opportunities in Florida.

[bcassidy]

You have asked about two nice stallions and I don't think you would go wrong on either. I have a privately devised system for evaluating stallions and both score very high in my system. I love to find high value stallions, for a breed to race mating. Of the two I would absolutely rank Outflanker as the better choice in my system, but it would absolutely be no problem for me to recommend either stallion to you. I do believe Outflankers book has increased tremendously since he arrived in Maryland and that should definitely help him when your foal is ready to sell. My vote is 70% Outflanker 30% Service Stripe.

[jellac]

bcassidy - any Texas based or nearby regional stallions rank well in your system?

[Blewin]

Outflanker was sold and moved to MD in the fall of 2003.All of the ROMB are from FL.The 2004 ROMB will be his first while standing in MD.

Carol

[halo]

I have an Outflanker yearling filly who is by far the best of my 5 yearlings. She is the first foal out of a mare with absolutely no page. I bred to him because a. His fee at the time was tremendous value for what he was producing on the track and b. the mare is by a Halo stallion, and I was trying for the Danzig/Halo nick, since I didnt have much else to work with on her. The filly is a huge improvement over the mare; dead correct (the mares legs are typically bad for her line) and a gorgeous mover in the field. If he were still here Id be sorely tempted to try it again.

I also raced an Outflanker filly which I bought extremely cheaply at an auction, and she has been extremely consistant, winning allowance races on her best day. She also was light on the page.

[bcassidy]

Jellac, I don't follow the Texas Stallions as closely as some other states and please remember I am a breed to race guy, so I am always looking for value, which typically means I have to find a stallion before they get fashionable (commercial) so, by definition, I am not going to select popular stallions. The three stallions I have followed are Valid Expectations, Chimes Band and Gold Legend. Valid Expectations is clearly the most commercial of these three but I certainly wouldn't hesitate going to either of the other two if I liked the nick and body type match. I do not have any data on Claudius, but I did send a mare to him two years ago and I have a beautiful filly by him now, but I don't have hard data on him. I selected him for my mare because of mating analysis I had done. Rob Keck ( who I respect a lot from Crestwood) recommended Distant VIew, Distant VIew is crooked and Claudius has a very similar pedigree to Distant View for 17K less, so I opted for Claudius. I have no regrets as I dropped the foal in Louisianna and the foal should love the turf. Year round opportunities with the foal being registered in La. Hope this helps. Would love to hear other peoples thoughts. BTW--I think- West Acre, Northern Afleet, Eltish and Montbrook are some great values in Florida which isn't too far away. I like Montbrook first and then Northern Afleet, West Acre and Eltish, in that order. I am always seeking value, and Montbrook still has great value at 20K in my system.

[halo]

I think Eltish and Northern Afleet are very undervalued, tho I dont know what Northern Afleet will do next year. I bred 2 mares to him this year. Eltish produces a very attractive horse, and they can run, and seem versatile enough. Shame he hasnt gotten more foals, but he's done great with what he's had. Northern Afleet is a moderate sized, extremely blocky horse, and produces very much to that mold. They can really really run, too. The West Acres tend to a lot of unsoundness. Montbrook, of course, can get a really really good horse, and has year after year. He produces a very large, typically a bad legged horse. Typical Buckpasser knees on many of his get, and the fact that they are so large really make it difficult to stay sound. They can run tho. I dont think he's particular value at $20K, but he's earned that position anyway.

[ballymoss]

SERVICE STRIPE colt sold as hip#3038 at current KeeSep yrlg sale for twelve hundred dollars! [$1,200].

[FOS]

Hi bcassidy and halo,

bcassidy...I agree with you about Montbrook...in my opinion he may be the most horse for the money in the country...he is exceptional value at $20k. He can get a real race horse...with speed to spare...he's proven it time and again.

halo...good move breeding to Northern Afleet...don't be surprised if you see a big bump in stud fee...and possibly a trip to KY.

Outflanker...it might be wise to look elsewhere if you have dreams of breeding a top-class race horse. Oh I guess that's unfair, they all have it in them to get a real good one...even Ole Bob Bowers got John Henry. But Outflanker just doesn't seem to get a "dangerous" race horse.

He'll probably be a nice regional stallion. But I ask...if they gave up on him in Florida...why would you expect him to "happen" in Maryland?

Respectfully

[Mahubah]

I don't think Outflanker is likely to be the next sire of the century, but I don't think Florida "gave up on him" either. He was attracting an increased book of mares based on his stud performance so far prior to his shift to Maryland, where his stud fee has increased to $7500. A stallion who has been "given up on" usually doesn't have his stud fee raised!

[bcassidy]

FOS- I think you will find that Outflanker will do quite well in MD. and I would expect him to be a very good regional stallion along the lines of Polish Numbers and now Not For Love, both of these stallions stud fees went as high as 20,000, top end for the regional market it seems. I think you will notice a very modest book of mares that Outflanker had in Florida. If he gets better mares in MD, which I suspect he has, his stud fee and commercial appeal will rise. In Md, I identify him as a sire which consistently out performs the mares he covers. I guess only time will tell which of our opinions is correct but my system has him rated very high value, especially for breed to race interests.

On Northern Afleet--- I really think this stallion has incredible potential. My system scores him extremely high in the value column and I believe he is every bit as good as Montbrook. I am going to try to get as many of my mares to him next breeding as possible. I believe his stud fee of 5,000 is a true bargain. Catch this one while you can. If the syndicate handles him correctly, this guy is a guaranteed winner.

[bcassidy]

Halo, very smart move with the two mares in foal to Northern Afleet. Hope you plan to race them but if you don't, my two cents would be to hold on to them as long as you can ( if they look good obviously ). By the time these foals will be two year olds. Northern Afleet will be a very hot stallion. Great move on your part and happy to see we lke the same stallions in Florida. I might still give West Acre a shot. Hard to pass up a 3,500 stud fee with this much potential. respectfully brendan.

[halo]

I dont particularly consider Montbrook as value at $20,000. I think he's well worth it, but I dont consider him value. Value, to me, is breeding to a stallion at under market value. I consider value as breeding to Saint Ballado at $3500 after his great start with his first crop racing. I consider value as breeding to Outflanker at $3,000 after his first couple of crops showed great promise along with several stakes horses. I consider breeding to Northern Afleet at value breeding to him this year at well under his advertised fee, even without the exploits of Afleet Alex. I like to look for stallions under the radar, horses who are producing very well in spite of not being the most popular or the most publicised. I breed to race, so I am not looking for that "quick fix". I have found, especially at Calder, which I am most familiar with, that if you have a horse that can run a little bit, the buyers will come out of the woodwork to buy them and take them to the rest of the country. Pedigree is of no consequence. Action speaks louder than words. So in this position, I feel it is imperative to breed to stallions who can produce a race horse, and it sure helps to have a horse who looks good doing it and looks good standing in front of you.