Anyone hear of liquoring up horses?

[Sangue Vecchio]

One of my horses has to have beer in his feed to help him sweat.

[Tucumcari]

Guinness is a common remedy for horses that are not great eaters.
Does your horse have anhydrosis?

[geowarrior]

In the olden days in Britain (not sure if they did this here in the US) it was recommended that pregnant females (of the human variety) drink their ration of nutritious stout daily. It used to be left outside the front door in bottles delivered by the milkman along with the bottles of milk.

Wasn't Red Rum a fan of beer also, after he retired? I seem to remember that he was.

[angelsprite]

I have heard of giving alcoholic beverages IV to racehorses. I have not witnessed it, but believe it is done. Eventually, they will start giving these animals a blood alcohol level test and add that to the expense of racing, thanks to the unethical behavior in the industry. It's so costly to have so many cheats and dirty people in this industry. One would think owners would revolt. But, not today.
Anyway, my opinion is this. I don't drink much. I like a glass of wine in the evening, sometimes, on a cold night, in my robe and slippers. I like to have a beer with a friend from time to time, if the music isn't too loud. I think wine or beer can be good in moderation. Jose Cuervo is not a friend of mine. I like Tequila Sunrises entirely too much, so I never order the first one.
In any of this, is there any part that says that alcohol ever goes into a horse? I swear, some people have more money than good sense. If I buy alcohol, I drink it. I'm not giving it to my horse. He couldn't appreciate it anyway.
When my horse can sing along with the jukebox to his favorite tune, I might buy him a drink. As long as he can't ask for it, he ain't gonna get it.
I don't know about the alcohol and anhydrosis. I hadn't heard that it helps them sweat. I'm not saying it's not possible, or that it wouldn't have legitimate medical uses and possibly be less expensive than other drugs that are made to have the same theraputic uses.
I'm just saying, for keeping my horses calm in the paddock, I use training. For keeping me calm in the paddock, I wear a ring on my pinkie that I spin around and around with my other hand. For keeping me calm when I'm out on the town, alcohol has it's uses.

[griff]

What's the vet charged with??

I can understand some might believe there is an ethical problem with shotting up horses with vodka but did not know ut was against the law.

Is it one of the drugs that is banned??

griff

[kezeli]

As for the vodka, any cheap brand will do, the high proof makes it sterile so IV is OK. It is also used on dogs with antifreeze poisioning, it makes the antifreeze molecule basicaly inert, you keep them blotto for 2 days and they are ok if it is caught soon enough. Beer in feed is great for a fussy eater they like it and they eat up. We used to buy gallon jugs of the bar "dregs" from the convenient store by Churchill to cool some horses with that wouldn't relax after a race or work.

[Jolene]

I remeber a few years back some story of a Derby horse (maybe Breeders Cup) that they would give some Guinness each morning.

That was Tapit.

[angelsprite]

Griff,
It is against the law to put drugs into racehorses that are considered performance enhancing and it is against the law to put anything in a horse that is not an approved med (Lasix) on a raceday. That's because the public is wagering on the sport. So, if a person gives a horse a drug that is perceived to have the potential to in any way alters the performance of the horse, it defrauds the wagering public. The biggest problem our sport faces now is the public perception that drugs are used in ALL the horses and that those drugs change the outcome of a race, so that it is impossible to know what a horse will do by his pedigree or performance record. For this reason, the sport has lost many bettors over the years and is not getting any new bettors in. I did a survey once of college students, as a project for my degree, testing their knowledge of horseracing, wagering, and their interest in the sport. Out of 415 people, 382 answered that they would never wager on a horserace. And of those 382, 368 stated it was because performance enhancing drugs alter the outcome of the race. The remaining 14 stated it was because the jockeys hold the horses. 400 of those said they would wager on dogs.

[griff]

Angelsprite

I'm surprised you could find 400 college students that could even find a race track in their college town much less have an openion on drugs, horse drugs that is.

Still, if it's against the law to admisister any drug that might enhancen a horses chance of winning you have answered my quaetion of what the vet was charged with. then again, if i gave the horse an asprin could I be charged if someone thought it would enhance his chances of winning?? What about carrots??

I always though there was a list of drugs that could not be admisistererd.

griff

[SIBONEY]

Spirits have been used on the track for longer than you can imagine.....lol

The people think it's a practice used by scoundrels to somehow manipulate races at the risk of hurting the horse, have no clue about training racehorses. They'd better learn a little before rushing to judgement.

Before Lasix became the drug of choice for bleeders, Alcohol was one of the more common aids in treating horses against bleeding. Alcohol (Clear) in small amounts helps lower blood pressure and is most beneficial in relaxing nervous horses prone to bleed, dehydrate and tye-up.

The issue should not be the harmful effects of alcohol on the equine athlete and those "bad" trainers....lol Although P.E.T.A. fans would love to make it such. The problem is the 24(or)48 hour rules in most jurisdictions...unfortunately, alcohol is most effective 1-2 hours prior to racing and that is what puts users of this benine remedy on the wrong side of the fence although it's common practice at many top racetracks across the nation.

[KAL]

Siboney, careful... your post is far more judgemental and uninformed than most others in this thread.

The fact is that it is illegal to give a horse liquor, via shots or IV, on race day. Nothing else needs to be said. It is illegal, so it should not be done and those caught should be punished.

I don't really care if some think it has benefits or not. And, I don't really doubt that it might have benefits, however I do care that it is illegal. Of course, I also know that it is a supposed substitute for administering drugs prescibed, which are also illegal on race day.

The use of liquor is simply to get around the rules, and to take the place of the medically approved meds which are not allowed on race day (and do show in a urinalysis). OF course, as some have already indicated, perhaps some of the problem is in the training to start with.

There are so many openings for abuses that justifying "bending" the rules is dangerous in and of itself. What if the horse has a negative reaction, or what if a particular horse has a tolerance issue? Then, you are talking about endangering horse, rider, and everyone else. What if horse doesn't respond well to the booze, what will be tried next?

Willingly breaking rules usually turns into a slippery slope. Once the line has been crossed, it is too easy to keep right on going. This is how good, intelligent people end up doing incredibly dumb, hurtful things.

Another problem that I have would be better directed at the vets who administer... what do we know about the long-term effects of alcohol on horses?

I actually have less of a problem with the trainers slipping a jigger or two than I do with the vets. In the vets case, he is knowingly administering medical treatment which is direct conflict with the rules. He should, at minimum, be barred from all tracks.

Siboney, I am not in complete disagreement with what you said, however you must admit that it is very, very hypocritical to ask the general public to trust a sport which willingly and openly breaks its own rules. Even if the process and actions are decades old and ingrained within the industry. You cannot be critical of others for pointing that simple fact out.

Oh... I believe the word is benign... as in "... the cancer proved to be benign...". May not be life threatening, but I still don't want it.

[Rokeby Forever]

(Q) What did the bartender ask the horse?

(A) Why the long face?

[angelsprite]

Sibony,
With regard to the college kids, I doubt any of them had ever seen a race track. Parents used to take their kids to the track. Now, they caution their kids that the horses are all drugged.
Also,
I'm a trainer. I know everything that goes on at the tracks. I've had to sit and be interrogated by the stewards because someone in the barn my horses were stabled in on the track tossed cocain over the back fence to put in a racehorse, and someone else who knew about it turned them in. Fortunately, I wasn't there for the races that night. I never knew it happened until they called me in to ask about it and then I got moved to a better barn. I've had to watch horses going out to the paddock with huge bumps from nose to tail after something was administered that shouldn't have been on a race day, and the horse reacted with an inflammation of the blood. And who do they come to for help? Yours truly. Why? Because the vet didn't give it to the horse and they were afraid he would turn them in for the violation, but they were worried the animal would die without attention. I just told them it was an inflammation of the blood and they should call a vet. They took the horse to the paddock and raced it instead. Then, as a true example of how smart the doping cheats are, when they brought the horse back, they left it on the walker to go off drinking and I finally saw it was still there, half dead with exaustion an hour and a half after they hung it on there, and I turned off the machine, then tracked down someone to put the horse up.
Cheats and dopers think think they are clever. They all know something no one else knows. I have some news for you. It doesn't make that big a difference in performance. Instead of helping, the horses cycle on their drugs, and perform less reliably from race to race, injuring their performance. Many of the drugs you guys use contribute to catastrophic breakdowns. Anabolic steroids can cause testicular atrophy which makes the horse sterile. All of this costs money, and doesn't put any in the bank for you.
You sound like one of the owners I complain about who points the finger of blame at the industry, instead of taking personal responsibility for it, saying, "Everybody does it." News flash. Everybody doesn't. Yes, doping has been around a long time. Everytime an American trainer went to England in the late 1800s and early 1900s, they got busted because they did saliva tests over there, but apparently American trainers were so dumb, they thought the test wouldn't find whatever they were putting into them.
I know more about these drugs you're talking about than you possibly could. I was formally educated in drugs, how they are manufactured, the chemical components, drug interactions, side effects, and theraputic uses. We had to learn about that when I attended the vet school at TAMU. I promise trainers aren't helping themselves or the horse by using the drugs. A good trainer really wants to keep his horse as normal as possible for a race, so that the animal feels competetive and balanced and wants to run.
All a trainer does by spending all that money on chemicals to put in a horse is to send your veterinarian on the horse owner's vacation and the trainer is costing himself money in fines and suspensions and attorney's fees. He is also placing his freedom at risk, if they ever get serious about enforcement. I don't consider anyone who places their freedom at risk to be all that clever. One thing I will never have to worry about is some cop cuffing me on the backside, saying, "You are now under arrest for possession of a controlled substance." Or, "You're under arrest because that bad test violated the law." The laws are on the books now. They could do that now, if they wanted. How smart did that vet look wearing handcuffs? I bet he knows all about the drugs and how long they've been doping horses, and I just bet you, he thinks everybody does it. He'll need a lawyer.

[SIBONEY]

i had a feeling my post would strike a nerve...it should.

I will admit i was borderline pissed off when i read some of the posts. It irritates me to no end when smart people get stuck on the small picture. Alcohol is only a grain of sand on the immense beach of problems that racing is facing today,yesterday and probably at least next ten years.

Sprite, i respect you for having a passion for what you do. I don't question your integrity and or your ideas, but in reading a good percentage of your posts, i see a common thread. You constantly attack all trainers. Trainers are a vital part of this industry. We get up every morning at 4 a.m. and even when we sleep, we worry about our horses. I don't think it's right to pick apart the trainers, when the problem is much bigger.

Racing needs "Total" reform. In my opinion, it doesn't need the banning of a substance or a stiffer fine for a positive test. We've been sitting people before the stewards for decades...and what have we now? The same problems we've always had. They fined Art Sherman $3500 for positive Clen up here a week or so ago, but do you really think he's going to slow the flow of Ventipulmin his stock is getting...no. KAL, yes it's hypocritical of us to expect the racing public to trust our game...and what public? The stands are empty at most tracks during the week. Unless it's a big Stakes event, umbrella giveaway or dollar beers, it's a bust. The feel amongst many track owners is the "burden" of managing a track....give us slots they say. I say, give us "Total Reform".

We have a great problem in that there are too many racing jurisdictions. Tooooo many people making their living from the hundreds of groups involved in trying to manage all different types of special needs (whether needed or not). These bureaucrats (some with good intentions) will fight tooth and nail to keep their positions and delay the onset of the reconstruction of this industry. Not to mention the people that are comfortable with their personal investments as leaders in the sport right now. It takes real courage and a love for this beautiful sport to put aside personal gain for the betterment of the industry.

[KAL]

Siboney, okay count me in your corner.

I pretty agree with almost all that you posted. I think you and I (and many others) are on the same page, or at least in the same chapter.