Old Fashoin Drop out

[karenkarenn]

Hello
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... erby-trail

It never occured to me to accuse Larry JOnes when Eight Belles broke down, but yesterday when I tuned in and watched both channels from ESPN that had the Ark derby, I saw Larry Jones working out Old Fashoined. Doesnt it occur to him that his horses are getting hurt because hes riding them?? Why doesnt he let an excercise rider do their job or even the new jockey?
He doesnt look like hes 110 pounds.
Karen

[ratherrapid]

Barbaro
Rags To Riches--fractures hind as she finishes Belmont
War Pass fractures sesamoids crossing line in the Wood.
8 Belles
Old Fashioned
Friesan Fire entered off a 7 week layoff and zero breezing in a month.

[LB]

It never occured to me to accuse Larry JOnes when Eight Belles broke down, but yesterday when I tuned in and watched both channels from ESPN that had the Ark derby, I saw Larry Jones working out Old Fashoined. Doesnt it occur to him that his horses are getting hurt because hes riding them?? Why doesnt he let an excercise rider do their job or even the new jockey?
He doesnt look like hes 110 pounds.

Amazingly, the vast majority of horses--and ponies--are capable of carrying riders that weigh more than 110 lbs without breaking down.

[karenkarenn]

I thought that he was retiring too?
Its just odd after Eight Bells, he was slammed with drug issues on another horse, on and off retirement, and now Old Fashioned. Im just not on the band wagon of Larry Jones...
-K

[Worksoplad]

I thought that he was retiring too?
Its just odd after Eight Bells, he was slammed with drug issues on another horse, on and off retirement, and now Old Fashioned. Im just not on the band wagon of Larry Jones...
-K

On the contrary, I think you are on his back for no good reason.

[karenkarenn]

[oliverstoned]

It's because they are sired by Unbridled's Song not because of Larry Jones
being a chub.

[spex4me]

I have seen 110 pounds do more harm to a horse than 210 pounds because they didn't know how to ride. When I watch Jones ride it looks fluid. So I highly doubt it is him. Heck at my heaviest I was 180, I never had a youngster lame up for even a day, and I put miles on young horses. Usually an average of 20 miles a week. (and this was/is on a multitude of breeds including Tb's)

I would tend to go with part breeding, part too much too soon, and mostly not every horse will float through racing unscathed. Sometimes the fact that every horse is uniquely different gets lost in the shuffle. Though I feel bad for Jones, I like him very much. He is a very good trainer so he is going to get both the kick butt durable horses and the kick butt fragile ones. Sadly, the owners probably don't care which one they have as long as it gets a check.

[geowarrior]

I tend to agree with oliverstoned. If you look at the Stallion Registers, sons of Unbridled's Song frequently have very few starts and although some of that may be a function of early retirement for stud value, anecdotal information seems to suggest early injury is also a factor. There are a couple of U.B. studs with lots of starts but they include some with non-typical careers such as Even The Score (I think) who did not race until 3, which I think is significant.

As one poster to a forum observed last year, U.B. offspring are 'big, with spindly legs'.

This doesn't mean I don't like Unbridled's Song, just that I'd prefer to see more of his offspring being treated like descendants of some of the better known slow maturing lines. Unfortunately, they have the looks that sell, they run fast early, cost bundles and the temptation to run them ASAP is no doubt great.

[BenB]

Most horses are run in the ground, because they show talent at an young age while not matured yet.

So for owners who likes to cashes at an early stage, these horses are the perfect victims

[wangkw]

Does such thing called Dosage play a role in your picking of Derby favorites ?..I know that is a very flowery literiture.

So does Old Fashioned fall victim to its measurement too ?..I read somewhere with very few exceptions in the past
Derby winners in general measured below 4 in DI and 1.25 in CD.

The theory has thus suggested that Old Fashioned (5.22) and PioneerOf The Nile (3.89) are gone case.

This is more akin to pattern-based technical theories like Elliot Wave..Adherents believe one thing..that patterns will
repeat in the future...but that is a very huge assumption made.

[fletch621]

Well, you know how rumors are... but word on the backside at Oaklawn (from people who watched Old Fashioned in the shedrow) was that this horse was very, very sore coming out of the Rebel. I know as me and my trainer watched the AR Derby on Saturday he commented that he expected Old Fashioned would be injured in this race if he was pushed hard or he would not run a good race at all.

[ratherrapid]

Interesting prediction.

[wangkw]

Maybe NTRA etc should revise downward the max weights..and overhaul the current system..more discernable
difference to be made btw dirt vs turf, male against female, long vis-a-vis sprint..3yo versus 5yo etc..One area
I could foresee problem is if max wts are reduced too much, NA tracks will need to import a lot of jockey from
overseas..say...bangladesh.

[freshman]

Doesn’t it occur to him that his horses are getting hurt because hes riding them?? Why doesnt he let an excercise rider do their job or even the new jockey?
He doesnt look like hes 110 pounds.
Karen

The way I understand it, I think it's pretty common for horses to train in the mornings with "full-size" riders. Not sure this means riders the size of Larry Jones, though, so hopefully somebody here can clear this up.

Regardless, it's spooky to see Old Fashioned progress so much like his female counterpart from last year, sent down the same Derby trail, and succumbing to injury on the way. It makes it harder to stomach Eight Bell's catastrophic injury as bad racing luck. All the time it's said that Unbridled's Song horses are ticking time bombs, can't be pushed too hard, too young, too fast, etc. And all the time they are trained and raced that way.

I don't think the owners, trainers, etc, of these horses are cruel or greedy. These horses are brilliant, rock stars. How do you say no to a fast racehorse that wins? Or, as breeders, pass on the potential jackpot that a good-looking Unbridled's Song can get you in the sales ring? Hard to say.

Anyway, the last thing the world needs is another broken-down Unbridled's Song stallion out there sowing seeds of unsoundness. I just don't this sort of injury as something that a horse like this comes back back from to race again, so no doubt there is some Kentucky stud or another that's about to get a new Unbridled's Song stallion. Yipee.

On a brighter note, at least we're spared the potential of a spectacular TC break down a la Eight Bells or Barbaro with this one. It was a good injury that way.