Hi Pete,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful, in depth response. Sorry I didn't get to this earlier, but as you know I was in Saratoga - and then, on the eve of my return, my hard drive bit the dust. I'm limited to pay-per-minute computers and brief interludes with friends' computers - may have to buy another if CompUSA does not give me mine soon...
So much has happened since you last wrote, haha. The filly in question ran again - but this time, inexplicably for $7,500 at Pimlico (this was after the owner confiding in me that he hoped someone would take her at $5K). She was 9th of 10, I believe. And now is entered for an $8,000 tag at Timonium! I have not followed up again with the owners - don't understand what they are doing and she is no longer in my price range. Ah well, the information you provided on the various tracks will be very helpful in the future - she may well drop to $5K or lower again.
On the turf angle - I actually thought turf when I saw her at dam's side - she didn't look like a dirt runner. I agree though, that generally speaking owners should not turn to turf as a panacea. I don't think my partnership bred another horse that I would call a grass horse except her - and a Lost Soldier colt with double Danzig close up, who bowed a tendon while being conditioned as a dirt horse.
On $5,000 and lower claiming levels - why do I worry? Well, I may be wrong, but it seems to me that a horse that is running at those levels is less likely to be nurtured back from an injury that requires time and $ to repair. Horses at this level seem to simply disappear from the racing scene. Horses with some class - running at higher levels - are more likely to be given the vet work, time off if necessary, and brought back. I personally don't want any horse I've bred to leave the race track on a meat man's van. So, that's why I worry!
Anyway, it was great talking to you while you were in Saratoga even if over the phone... and thanks again for your helpful posts.
Philly Park horse goes to New York?
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
Hi Hurley,
It was good to speak with you too.
Sorry that you're getting musical chairs about 'your' filly.
It's absolutely the right of the owner to run their horse where they want and if the rules allow that horse may be claimed. I understand your desire to get the horse back to NY to race and possibly get breeder's awards and you may yet get the chance.
My assumption is that the trainer wants to try and make you dip in for her at $7,500 or $8,000. When they get tired of wasting time and money they may put her in at $5,000, or you can call and offer less. Many trainers will sell their claimers for the claiming price and a percentage of the purse in the next race that they could run in. Makes sense, but also makes it hard to purchase the horse.
Regards,
Pete
It was good to speak with you too.
Sorry that you're getting musical chairs about 'your' filly.
It's absolutely the right of the owner to run their horse where they want and if the rules allow that horse may be claimed. I understand your desire to get the horse back to NY to race and possibly get breeder's awards and you may yet get the chance.
My assumption is that the trainer wants to try and make you dip in for her at $7,500 or $8,000. When they get tired of wasting time and money they may put her in at $5,000, or you can call and offer less. Many trainers will sell their claimers for the claiming price and a percentage of the purse in the next race that they could run in. Makes sense, but also makes it hard to purchase the horse.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
Alot of claiming horses can be bought for less than the tag they are running for. If she runs back in her next start, I'd run in there and make them an offer you can live with and if they say no leave your number and tell them to call when they want to sell. We stocked my brother's barn early on in his career by doing this, finding horses that were underperforming (running over their head, idiot trainer, easily diagnosed, easily fixed problem that wasn't being taken care of).
Hi Austique,
In my experience I'd use care with purchasing bottom horses for less than their claiming prices in the hops of continuing to race them.
Paying $5k for a hors that's beens struggling in $10k claimers may have merit if you have a plan of action and a reason to believe that you can change the fortunes of the horse.
Generally, I need nothing more than the Racing Form to get an idea of the horse and how it'sbeen handled. I'm always weary of any apparent gifts though.
Regards,
Pete
In my experience I'd use care with purchasing bottom horses for less than their claiming prices in the hops of continuing to race them.
Paying $5k for a hors that's beens struggling in $10k claimers may have merit if you have a plan of action and a reason to believe that you can change the fortunes of the horse.
Generally, I need nothing more than the Racing Form to get an idea of the horse and how it'sbeen handled. I'm always weary of any apparent gifts though.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
Totally agreed Pete. In our case, we had inside knowledge on all of the horses we purchased. Knew the trainer, knew the farrier, knew the trainer's help, etc. We also had a jockey that would bring horses to our attention if he thought we could fix them (most of the time we wouldn't touch those as he seemed to think my brother could peform miracles 
) . Most of those we wouldn't touch. I was just thinking in hurley's case since as they seem to really want the filly that might be an option to take as opposed to claiming the horse. Claiming or purchasing out of the barn you are taking a risk especially with a filly that's been run over her head or has underperformed as the case may be. I certainly didn't mean to imply that we were successful every time we used this tactic, but we had a good rate of success. Also its important to note that we ran a family business and while we had several clients our own horses were free from any pressure to run before they ready. We had the time and the resources to wait. Hurley may not want to wait or risk the money. Fair game. 
) . Most of those we wouldn't touch. I was just thinking in hurley's case since as they seem to really want the filly that might be an option to take as opposed to claiming the horse. Claiming or purchasing out of the barn you are taking a risk especially with a filly that's been run over her head or has underperformed as the case may be. I certainly didn't mean to imply that we were successful every time we used this tactic, but we had a good rate of success. Also its important to note that we ran a family business and while we had several clients our own horses were free from any pressure to run before they ready. We had the time and the resources to wait. Hurley may not want to wait or risk the money. Fair game. Hi Austique,
My last post was (I hope) the worst botch job I'll ever post (grammatically). WEARY (instead of wary)? Spelling errors all over. I must have been asleep at the wheel.
Inside information, especially from riders, can be a big help. For anyone considering this, DON'T ask the jocks, ask the exercise riders. Ethically, the jocks can't talk to you about the horse and it's a real good chance that they will tell the trainers or worse, the stewards about your inquiry. Make sure to ask exercise riders that you know - don't ask out of the blue.
Track scuttlebutt is important to hear about a horse, but can also take you off some horses with merit. Perhaps it's better to NOT buy and be sorry than to go against the stories you might hear about a horse.
Regards,
Pete
My last post was (I hope) the worst botch job I'll ever post (grammatically). WEARY (instead of wary)? Spelling errors all over. I must have been asleep at the wheel.
Inside information, especially from riders, can be a big help. For anyone considering this, DON'T ask the jocks, ask the exercise riders. Ethically, the jocks can't talk to you about the horse and it's a real good chance that they will tell the trainers or worse, the stewards about your inquiry. Make sure to ask exercise riders that you know - don't ask out of the blue.
Track scuttlebutt is important to hear about a horse, but can also take you off some horses with merit. Perhaps it's better to NOT buy and be sorry than to go against the stories you might hear about a horse.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
I think Hurley wants this mare to breed i may be wrong. he just doesnt want her to go to the killers. May ask him if he wants to run her again if he can get her.
As far as asking jocks about horses you have to know which ones will help you and which ones wont. I know jocks that will give horses up and some wont. But if i can i will ask the jock what he can tell me about the horse.
As far as asking jocks about horses you have to know which ones will help you and which ones wont. I know jocks that will give horses up and some wont. But if i can i will ask the jock what he can tell me about the horse.