Winstrol

[hdembski]

What I said is Winstrol doesnt do anything, it doesnt. I didnt say all steroids, I said Winstrol particular, it doesnt do anything, especially when dosed how racetrack vets dose it.

Who regulates what dose they give? Let's be honest. I have chronic back problems. i can go to my doctor and minipulate him into giving me lortab i don't need. If a horse needs Winstrol for a legitimate medical purpose which most don't, i can see it, but it's chemically realted to testosterone and of course it would enhance performance. But hey, let's blame Kent on his ride to cover up the truth. Icabad crane was off the stuff too and finished near BB, coincidence?

[hdembski]

Anabolic steroids (Equipoise®, Winstrol V®) are labelled to be used in horses that are in poor body condition because of disease or overwork. But because they increase appetite and muscle mass, they are frequently used to "bulk up" show horses. These drugs are all chemically related to testosterone. When given to stallions or mares, these drugs can interfere with normal sexual functions. Some of the affects will reverse when the drugs are no longer administered, but some animals will remain permanently infertile. In some horses, the testosterone effect will dramatically affect their temperaments - turning normally placid horses into "land sharks". These effects may last for 6 to 8 weeks.


under this info, someone pleaqse tell me if BB was "diseased or needed increased appetite or body mass"..."poor body condition" yeah that fits most race horses!!

[Foggytrip]

You obviously have no idea how long Winstrol is active in the body of a human or a horse. It needs to be taken daily. To put into perspective a standard dose for a 1200lb horse is 10 ccs once a month. Figure a 200lb human athlete is taking 3-5 ccs every day. It is a huge mark up for vets, that is why its given, and it keeps a horse eating for a couple days or spikes their appitite. On the racetrack its useless.

[hdembski]

You obviously have no idea how long Winstrol is active in the body of a human or a horse. It needs to be taken daily. To put into perspective a standard dose for a 1200lb horse is 10 ccs once a month. Figure a 200lb human athlete is taking 3-5 ccs every day. It is a huge mark up for vets, that is why its given, and it keeps a horse eating for a couple days or spikes their appitite. On the racetrack its useless.

the quote from the vet i used tells me all i need to know. It turns horses into land sharks but to you does not affect performance? Really? I've been in the medical field for over 20 years. It's realted to testosterone and affects performance. a normal 3 year old horse needs a appetite stimulant really? Tell me another one..

[hdembski]

When Big Brown's trainer Rick Dutrow gave Big Brown the steroid Winstrol, Dutrow essentially changed not only Brown's body but his brain. Dutrow made two mistakes:

1. Starting the steroid protocol in the first place. If you believe in the essence of breeding and training horses, you must understand the breeding of thoroughbred horses so completely that you do not need to use steroids to produce winners.

2. Dutrow suddenly decides to stop the Winstrol in April and then asks his horse to perform in the biggest three races in Brown's career. Essentially, Dutrow took away a form of heroine from the horse.

Dutrow gave the horse a muscle boosting, brain stimulating drug for most of his racing career and then abruptly took it away. The horse was not even allowed to be weaned from a drug that, through no fault of the horse, was pumped into him and changed his metabolism, his brain, and his very personality.

Shame on veterinarians who say Winstrol shouldn't make a difference in a horse's performance. If Winstrol doesn't make a difference, why would a veterinarian prescribe it in the first place?

[Foggytrip]

They give it because its a huge mark up. It makes no difference other than appitite

If you believe Dutrow ever stopped any steriods that he was giving Big Brown between the Derby, and Belmont, I need your checking account number so I can wire you in a million dollars for a lottery you won in Switzerland

If a Vet pays 5 bucks for Winstrol, and bills an owner 85 bucks, and does that with 80 horses in Dutrows care you do the math. Then ask yourself why would a vet give it

[dray33]

I think we know why vets love it. Lets focus on why TRAINERS love it. It enhances performance. Fact. It is written across tens of thousands of pp's across the country for all to see, if you care to look.

[Foggytrip]

Sadly Drew most of these trainers give it because the vets tell them to give it. They do not know what these drugs do, or do not do. I would be shocked if 5% of the trainers knew the difference in the drugs they adminster. They just dont know, they are like robots going through the motions. The vets are making all the decisions, and any decision a vet makes is driven by profit

[River Summit]

"If you believe Dutrow ever stopped any steriods that he was giving Big Brown between the Derby, and Belmont, I need your checking account number so I can wire you in a million dollars for a lottery you won in Switzerland."

I don't believe anything Dutrow says, so I agree with you that he didn't stop using steroids before a big race like the Belmont. NO trainer changes things that have worked previously unless forced to do so. I also don't believe the B.S. that Dutrow spewed about Frankel told him to cut back on the electrolytes. First off, Frankel, or no half-way decent trainer would have told him to do that, and I don't buy that Dutrow is so stupid he would take that kind of advice from anyone. He may be obnoxious, but he isn't as dumb as he looks and acts.

[hdembski]

They give it because its a huge mark up. It makes no difference other than appitite

If you believe Dutrow ever stopped any steriods that he was giving Big Brown between the Derby, and Belmont, I need your checking account number so I can wire you in a million dollars for a lottery you won in Switzerland

If a Vet pays 5 bucks for Winstrol, and bills an owner 85 bucks, and does that with 80 horses in Dutrows care you do the math. Then ask yourself why would a vet give it

your right there, same reasons vets over vaccinate dogs i guess.

[ratherrapid]

Puzzling that body builders take stanazol (Winstrol) daily. Are we perhaps assuming that Dutrow gives Winstrol once a month, and that select horses get more?

If you take a performance enhancing supplement, be it a steroid or any of the combo or "stacks" of proteins and other legal performance enhancing supplements out there (ephedra was one when legal), and go out on your six mile run you'll be struck immediately by the difference in your strength and stamina.

Optimum Nutrition has out right not a bodybuilding supplement involving a stack of proteins and a synthetic version of ATP that is "legal" that increases the strength and enjoyment of the run probably by 25-30%. You float along without getting tired.

Unknown to me the exact effect on horses of Winstrol, except to guarantee its given for other reasons than happiness and well being. Winstrol just might explain how D'Tara wires the Belmont off one short 4f breeze in 3.5 weeks. I'm like Spex, where have I been that the whole east coast is on steroids. Unbelieveable!

[zinn21]

In California, Steroid use and consequences will change fairly dramatically in the next few months.

Once the regulation and classification process is put in place, most likely by October, steroids such as Testosterone, Winstrol V and Equipoise will be reclassified as Class II or Class III substances, subject to penalties, fines and redistribution of purses etc. for a positive test.

The substances will not be banned but subject to low threshold levels when tested while racing. A recent Bloodhorse article states,

"Withdrawal times are specific to the formulation. As a group, anabolic steroids stay around for a long time, longer than any other group of drugs used in racing. Trainers should be looking at a minimum of 30 days with the water-based anabolic steroids, such as Winstrol and aqueous testosterone. The oil-based anabolic steroids, such as Equipoise, Durabolin, and testosterone will need a minimum of 45 days. We are advocating that administration of these drugs stop at this time. These are recommendations for minimum withdrawal times. There are too many variables involved to be more specific."

I think there is a place for the appropriate use of most medications including steroids in racing. It is the blatant misuse or overuse of medications that I strongly oppose and I think the California model for steroid use is a positive step forward that will do much to level the playing field in our state.


See link below for complete article

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/45387.htm

[ratherrapid]

Zinn, i'm thinking that I take a stronger position that anabolic steroids are without any place on a level playing field in a competitive sport. withdrawal 45 days out still leaves in place increased muscle strength and size and vascularization, though negative effects of withdrawal have been noted (adminsitration shuts down bodies own testosterone producing mechanism which fails to start again in time for the race).

Dutrow, unwittingly probably, finally exposed the whole east coast-NY training sham that has been allowing these horses to race off little to no race specific training. We finally finally learn-- mystery solved-- how certain trainers, unnamed, can prepare horses for 1.5 mile races off of 4f works.

there are two reasons for a total ban--
1. any use of anabolic steroid works a fraud on the whole sport.
2. steroid use endangers horses and riders by permitting untrained horses to outrun their trained structure.

[dray33]

there are two reasons for a total ban--
1. any use of anabolic steroid works a fraud on the whole sport.
2. steroid use endangers horses and riders by permitting untrained horses to outrun their trained structure.

Well said rr.
I would add:
3. the continued use of anabolic steroids has weakened the breed.

[larrygene]

dray, steriods have weakened the breed in what ways?? Just a thought, go over to "Horse Care"and read my post on vitamin D. Is it possible I have hit on something that we have over looked. I throw it out for consideration and possible answers to what could be causing us to have to deal with fragile bones. Has training methods changed that much that a vitamin D deficiency could play a part? Or is it as Louis claims a bloodline causing the problem or a combination of many factors. Simply food for thought!!

Larrygene