Conformation and Unsoundness

[Bast]

Hey, speaking of Secretariat's female line. He(arguably the greatest TB of all time) and Dash For Cash(considered by many the greatest QH of all time) share the same female line. Imperatrice is Secretariat's 2nd dam as well as the 4th dam of Dash For Cash.
Things that make you go...Hmmmmm....

Mitochondria matter. We just don't know exactly how.

[kimberley mine]

Another article:

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2000/39.pdf

Hoof angles control the weight distribution
between heel and toe of the hoof—lower angles
cause the heel to bear more weight. Dollar
(1898) noted: “In upright hoofs the heels
bear less weight than in flat hoofs.”14 More
recent research by Barrey (1991) found that at
a 39° hoof angle, 75% of the weight bears on
the heels and 25% on the toe; at a 47° hoof
angle, 63% of the weight bears on the heels;
and at a 55° hoof angle, 43% of the weight
bears on the heels.15 Since the the greater
the load the slower the growth, this helps to
explain the vicious cycle of the long toe and
under-run heel.

A tired horse, an underbanked turn, and long toes are a recipe for disaster.

The abstract makes a point on the crowning of race courses, to aid in drainage. I'd love to read it and am nowhere close to the library.

One of the most notable features of US racecourses are how narrow they are compared to international courses, and thus have a tighter turning radius. (Although, from memory, Palermo seemed to be built like a US track.) Aussie, Kiwi, South African, and British tracks are largely pear-shaped with the majority of routes run around one long, sweeping turn. Those courses also have 1200m straights over which the sprints are run.

It would be very interesting to compare catastrophic fracture incidence while racing through the turn between the Santa Anita turf course and the main tracks at Flemington (in Melbourne), over a 5-year period encompassing all 7/8f races (1400-1600m). At a guess, I would expect to see the following:

1. Comparatively more breakdowns in the left fore in the US than in Aussie (because they run clockwise at those two tracks);
2. Comparatively more breakdowns in the two US tracks than the Aussie tracks (in keeping with the current trend);
3. A sample size large enough to make meaningful statistical comparisons;
4. And in line with the above, a longitudinal sample of sufficient duration to smooth out any odd instances in a given year (e.g. a spate of breakdowns after unusually wet weather).

What would be interesting is to see the ratio of breakdowns on the turn--fewer in the wider turn than the tight turn, or vice versa?

The 1400m to 1600m is important: those are one-turn races in the US, whereas longer tend to be around two turns. Since the Flemington races run over one turn unless the race is more than 2400m (which aside from the San Juan Capistrano will never be run in the US), it's impossible to make an apples-to-apples comparison outside those two distances. The choice of Santa Anita and Flemington is also important, as the two areas have a very similar climate, are at about the same latitude, and are very, very flat (unlike many euro gallops).

[Whirlaway]

" . . . one thing though, the more I feel like someone is trying to sell me something, the more I question that person's credibility. In the case of Ellen Parker, she does have credentials, she does have a reputation, she is held in some regard by people in the industry whose names I recognize and have come to trust that they "know what they are talking about.". Until someone with a differing opinion provides information to support their credentials and a reason for me to listen with more than just slight interest, I'm inclined to take anything that person says with a grain of salt and discount it as so many sour grapes, for whatever reason. Not sure what's going on here, but I'm done with this for now. Thanks for tolerating me! Think I will go read more of what Ellen has to say."

She said it so well.

Emphasis mine.

[xfactor fan]

How are feet trimmed in other countries? Do they like the long toe style that some track farriers use? For example worldwide racing is drug free, except for the US.

It might very well be a combination of drugs weakening the bones, not enough training, to create strong bones. Long toes and tight turns may determine where catastrophic breakdowns happen.

[Bast]

" . . . one thing though, the more I feel like someone is trying to sell me something, the more I question that person's credibility. In the case of Ellen Parker, she does have credentials, she does have a reputation, she is held in some regard by people in the industry whose names I recognize and have come to trust that they "know what they are talking about.". Until someone with a differing opinion provides information to support their credentials and a reason for me to listen with more than just slight interest, I'm inclined to take anything that person says with a grain of salt and discount it as so many sour grapes, for whatever reason. Not sure what's going on here, but I'm done with this for now. Thanks for tolerating me! Think I will go read more of what Ellen has to say."

She said it so well.

Emphasis mine.

Does Ellen Parker have formal coursework in genetics? I do.

Does Ellen Parker have formal coursework in physiology? I do.

Does Ellen Parker have formal coursework equine management? I do.

Does Ellen Parker have published volumes of work sorting through racing performance, good and bad? I do.

Does Ellen Parker have formal coursework in biochemistry? I have a lot.

Is Ellen Parker a hands-on horsewoman? I am. I have foaled horses, raised them from babies to saddle-broken, mannered adults who then went to the track.

Has Ellen Parker ever selected a young horse paid for it with her own money, then raced it and made money with it racing? I have.

[xfactor fan]

Hey Bast,
You notice that Whirly hasn't seen fit to post a list of qualifications? Troll for sure.

[Bast]

Hey Bast,
You notice that Whirly hasn't seen fit to post a list of qualifications? Troll for sure.

The Whirly pattern is to raise hell, then retreat and show up somewhere else. The "bullying" comments were just strange. Adults don't become unhinged when they defend their ideas.

I expect more future threads like the "cult of Secretariat" thread--annoying, and ultimately pointless.

[xfactor fan]

By the way, love the photo of you know who as your mascot. Maybe more of us should use him--nothing spindly about the guy.

[Bast]

By the way, love the photo of you know who as your mascot. Maybe more of us should use him--nothing spindly about the guy.

He is a handsome fellow, isn't he? I wonder if there is any film showing him in action. Would love to see that.

[kimberley mine]

How are feet trimmed in other countries? Do they like the long toe style that some track farriers use? For example worldwide racing is drug free, except for the US.

It might very well be a combination of drugs weakening the bones, not enough training, to create strong bones. Long toes and tight turns may determine where catastrophic breakdowns happen.

I don't recall ever seeing the long-toe, low-heel style elsewhere. Feet in South Africa seemed like they should belong to somebody pulling the beer wagon (one old war horse of a gelding had feet like half a cantaloupe). Feet in New Zealand were generally tidy and well-kept, although there were a few I met who had flat feet. The horses in Argentina had feet that looked like polished granite.

This is speculation on my part, but the long-toe low-heel trend may have started as a way to get better traction on dirt--with the exception of Argentina and a few very cheap tracks in SAf, all the racing overseas I've seen is on turf.

[kimberley mine]

Something that's been touched upon but not mentioned outright yet--bleeders. Obviously, it's the reason Lasix is used in the US.

This is an australian document on exercise-induced pulmonary haemmorhage (EIPH), discussing it in more depth.

http://www.racingvictoria.net.au/asset/ ... EDITED.pdf

In AUS/NZ and HK, if a horse bleeds once post race, it is banned from training on the gallops for 2 months, banned from racing for 3 months, and before being given a gate card, it has to do at least a 5f work under observation by the track stewards and be shown to not bleed. If it bleeds again, it is banned for life from racing. I think there was a recent NZ-bred horse who bled twice down under that came to the US to race, but I can't remember its name.

In SAf, first bleed is 3 month ban, second bleed is 6-month ban, and third bleed is lifetime ban.

[Bast]

Something that's been touched upon but not mentioned outright yet--bleeders. Obviously, it's the reason Lasix is used in the US.

This is an australian document on exercise-induced pulmonary haemmorhage (EIPH), discussing it in more depth.

http://www.racingvictoria.net.au/asset/ ... EDITED.pdf

In AUS/NZ and HK, if a horse bleeds once post race, it is banned from training on the gallops for 2 months, banned from racing for 3 months, and before being given a gate card, it has to do at least a 5f work under observation by the track stewards and be shown to not bleed. If it bleeds again, it is banned for life from racing. I think there was a recent NZ-bred horse who bled twice down under that came to the US to race, but I can't remember its name.

In SAf, first bleed is 3 month ban, second bleed is 6-month ban, and third bleed is lifetime ban.

And yet, miracle of miracles, --POOF!!!-- these places manage to conduct racing without Lasix.

[kimberley mine]

And yet, miracle of miracles, --POOF!!!-- these places manage to conduct racing without Lasix.

If you read the article, it makes a strong point on why Lasix is banned, even though it states earlier that some trainers would like to use it (and recommends using it in training!!!): it doesn't prevent bleeds, it is a strong diuretic, giving performance enhancement through weight loss, and the diuretic effect makes it more difficult to test for banned substances.

IOW, little of the promised therapeutic effect, known performance enhancement, and known to wash other performance-enhancing drugs out of the system before testing....which doesn't give bettors confidence, really.

I remember in Cape Town the horses would be weighed before each race, and the weight read out by the track announcer. Weight would be wearing only the racing bridle. Such a thing would not be useful in the US, where the effects of a diuretic would mask any ability of the handicapper to make meaningful use of the weight, nor spot any pattern over time.

[Bast]

And yet, miracle of miracles, --POOF!!!-- these places manage to conduct racing without Lasix.

If you read the article, it makes a strong point on why Lasix is banned, even though it states earlier that some trainers would like to use it (and recommends using it in training!!!): it doesn't prevent bleeds, it is a strong diuretic, giving performance enhancement through weight loss, and the diuretic effect makes it more difficult to test for banned substances.

IOW, little of the promised therapeutic effect, known performance enhancement, and known to wash other performance-enhancing drugs out of the system before testing....which doesn't give bettors confidence, really.

I remember in Cape Town the horses would be weighed before each race, and the weight read out by the track announcer. Weight would be wearing only the racing bridle. Such a thing would not be useful in the US, where the effects of a diuretic would mask any ability of the handicapper to make meaningful use of the weight, nor spot any pattern over time.

I printed it out for careful reading. Thanks for posting it.

The practice of pulling water on a horse scheduled to race later in the day strikes me as counter productive, especially on a hot day. I know how I feel on a hot day when water isn't readily available--I certainly don't feel like running flat out.

[kimberley mine]

Hey Shammy---

I found this link discussing why a shod horse needs more frequent trimming.

A shod foot will rapidly grow at the toe and less at the heel causing the pastern angle to change. This places disproportionate pressures on the heel of the hoof.

If the shoes are left on too long, the hoof will eventually out grow the shoe at the quarters and heel. This is a prime cause of corns, quarter cracks and weak heels.

You were a track farrier for a long time--do you remember a point where the common shoeing interval got spaced out (e.g. went from 4 weeks to 6 weeks)? I'm just curious.