TUCUMCARI DEL MAR MAIN TRACK

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:57 pm

How is the Del Mar main track this year ? Good or Average.

Is Save about to make his 06 debut ?

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:18 pm

The track is ok.
Hard, but ok. As per usual the works are pretty rapid. The rail is hard. It has been wavy in spots which is intresting as it seems it has been graded with some regularity. Time will tell.

Who is Save? I don't know what horse you are speaking of.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:27 pm

Save is a maiden by Silver Charm trained by Darrell Vienna, I was told Save would start at Del Mar.

The way these TB are going down with injuries I hope Save stays sound.

Just think of the main track at Del Mar as it will be the last time you will gallop on the dirt, next year it will be Poly Track with less injuries.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:46 pm

Thanks for the report on the main track T. It looks like this DM meet is running true to form. Only the 2nd day of the meet and many TB are being vanned off.

Have a safe and pleasant time T, talk to you when you get back in town.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:24 am

You know, that statement makes me a bit cranky.
Every one wants to blame the track. The horses that broke down yesterday were "bad" already. Horses taking significant drops and or racing for "bottoms" Why do we think they are running cheap? Cause they have ailments. The Bean horse Home Tour was scratched at the gate at Hollywood PArk, Maybe start before last... I can't recall off the top of my head... The Hess horse was no good. If you send a "rocky" horse out, over a surface that is deemed a terrible surface by many, why be suprised if a horse snaps one off, and how is the track surface responsible a few days into the meet for the resulting deaths of already f-ed up horses?
Today a horse broke down right in front of me. The dummy was working an already sore horse ten minutes to the 7:30 renovation, over a track that has been torn up by horses for an hour and a half. So let's be shocked again when one snaps one off. Think about it. Human "error" is a huge contributing factor.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:01 pm

T: Those owners that put money before their TB ought to be banned from the sport. When those patched up TB who stand in ice just before they are taken into the saddling padock break down it turns the fans off.

Those types of owners keep running those TB because they want someone to claim their TB and they will take the money run.

Instead of running those patched up TB to get them claimed, those TB should be turned out at the ranch for R & R then bring them back when their problems are gone.

In the years gone by it was time, leg paint and patience. Today everyone is in a hurry to make a buck and those TB are paying the price.

When I arrived at Santa Anita this Friday morn I was informed two more TB broke down in training at Del Mar. That was the same incident that you posted.

May your guardian angel watch over you and your fellow riders.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:34 pm

it will be the last time you will gallop on the dirt, next year it will be Poly Track with less injuries.[/quote]

Polytrack is crap.

seabiscuitfan · Postby **seabiscuitfan** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:44 pm

Question on this topic. I know nothing about buying, or training racehorses just am a huge fan. But who's say is it when you know the horse is not performing well. Does the owner overrule the trainer or does the trainer tell the owner sure the horse is ok when he clearly is not. Is the vet invovled in all this? I think it is a darn shame that these horses that are not up to par are paying the price and not to mention the huge risk the jockeys are taking.
I do know this, that if I was an owner there is no way I would put my horse out there if he was not 100 percent. I just wonder if maybe owners get too excited and say well my horse is gonna run. I honestly don't know but after hearing all this stuff on Ugottadowhatugottado I am truly saddened. I know there are good trainers and I bet the paying a little more money to a trainer who does what is best by the horse is the thing to do no matter what. Hope this all makes sense.
Carol from Washington state
PS I am so glad I did not see that first race yesterday.

austique · Postby **austique** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:13 pm

Its really a mix of all three. You'll have some owners pushing really hard and its hard to cultivate clients so trainers do what they're told. Some trainers are too stupid to tell when a horse is sore and some just really don't care and then you've got the vets...ahhh the vets, backside vets in my experience love to tell you what new miracle cure they have for you to try and they make good money off of making horses appear sound. I had one vet want to block the back of a horse that was body sore and wasn't even ready to run. I was like "Um, no. I have Vetrolin and he can have some time off."

The track vets really need to do a better job of policing things as well. I've seen horses in the test barn or walking off the track falling down lame and see those horses never hit the vet's list and end up entered back 10 days later. You've got to police those that refuse to police themselves.

seabiscuitfan · Postby **seabiscuitfan** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:02 am

Thanks Austique for this answer. I don't even know what to say but I do hope in time that it is changed or more people get a say in this. I guess the best thing to do is pick the right person which is sort of a stupid answer in all this cause they ALL should know what to do. I am at such a loss for words here cause I still can't believe they would run horses that were not right. Anyways I do hope some changes will be made. Sure makes this sport look ugly and I love this sport.
Carol

austique wrote:Its really a mix of all three. You'll have some owners pushing really hard and its hard to cultivate clients so trainers do what they're told. Some trainers are too stupid to tell when a horse is sore and some just really don't care and then you've got the vets...ahhh the vets, backside vets in my experience love to tell you what new miracle cure they have for you to try and they make good money off of making horses appear sound. I had one vet want to block the back of a horse that was body sore and wasn't even ready to run. I was like "Um, no. I have Vetrolin and he can have some time off."

The track vets really need to do a better job of policing things as well. I've seen horses in the test barn or walking off the track falling down lame and see those horses never hit the vet's list and end up entered back 10 days later. You've got to police those that refuse to police themselves.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:15 am

Well said A.
I agree fully.

halfpint23 · Postby **halfpint23** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:50 am

Tucumcari wrote:"it will be the last time you will gallop on the dirt, next year it will be Poly Track with less injuries."

Polytrack is crap.

REally?

I would very much like to hear the reasoning and/or history behind that opinion, if you would be so kind as to enlighten us?

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:17 am

ok...
I don't like polytrack. I have been over it and watched hundreds of horses train over it. I do however think it has a training purpose. Horses with shins, the old warrior types that have a fair amount of wear and tear would likely really benefit by training over the surface. The thing I don't like about it is that the horses with bad hind ends don't really benefit from it. I am from the school that a horse with certain kinds of hind end "issues" needs to really be able to push and use them selves and develop the weak area. I have watched sooo many bad ass ended horses train really wide behind, paddling and never being able to dig in and never really helping themselves/improving...
I find it interesting that people are attributing the lower # of break downs solely to the new surface at Turfway. However the new surface also came in conjunction with a pretty significant change in the medication rule. Of course we all know we are no longer able to administer race day bute and banamine. Which I find is a GIANT contributing factor to the lower # of breakdowns.
And then there are of course the fools who continue to mercilessly send out "bad" horses to die. I think that a "kinder" surface will just give them license to press more on horses that shouldn't likely be in training let alone racing..., 'cause no one's breakin' down at Turfway.
It continues to amaze me that peple are blaming Del MAr's surface for being terrible and a killer of horses. Don't get me wrong, it isn't prime. So then why not change your style of training some. Why continue to literally beat the life out of these horses. BAck off. Tell your riders to gallop easy, don't drill everything in 59 and think they are going to stay sound. The track's famously bad. So be flexible. Don't just send sore horses out to die. We all make choices that contribute to these horses dying.
I just don't think an alternate surface is the savior we are looking for.
I could carry on on the long term effects of inhalant properties in horses and humans, shipping from poly to a deep organic surface, now we will have to breed and purchase for turf, dirt, and alternate surface, as of course not all horses will like the in organic footing... etc, etc...

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:01 pm

Most of the horseman I have talked too will monitor their TB when they go back to HP to train on poly track.

If most of their TB cant handle the poly track they are going elsewhere to train. HP will open for training the 1st week of Sept.

henthorn · Postby **henthorn** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:57 pm

Obviously none of the trainers or owners or vets want their horse to break down on the track, or injure other horses or jockeys.

But hindsight is twenty-twenty, and you don't get hindsight until after the fact. Horses run when they are not fit, too soon after layoffs or injuries, and when soreness is misinterpreted as cosmetic or harmless.

The finances, in particular in California, are so precarious that many trainers have moved their stables to other states. Trainers can't afford enough employees or hours of work because of the exorbitant work comp insurance costs. Owners balk at expensive training day money being "wasted" or underutilized, and the company is often too tough for the ordinary horses to finish in-the-money. It's hard to pay the bills when horses are not actively racing. And small fields at certain tracks can allow horses to run back too soon after minor wear-and-tear.

Polytrack will not be a panacea, and there will always be perceptions to overcome based on rumor or experiences with any track surface.