Claiming question

[Rokeby Forever]

I asked this question in the Fantasy Claiming Challenge, but I'd like to ask it to everyone.

A basic rule is that once the gate opens, the horse you've claimed is yours.

Suppose you claim a horse that pulls up lame - bowed, fractured something, or pulled a suspensory. Does that horse still have to give a urine sample?

Or, suppose a horse that's claimed is put down on the track. Is a blood sample drawn?

The reason I ask: If a horse tests positive for a substance or an overdose of a legal substance, the claim is voided. So, in the above cases, suppose a claimed horse that's pulled up lame or breaks down would have tested positive for an illegal substance or an overdose of a legal substance (like too much Lasix). If no test is taken, the original owner has broken the rules and gotten away with it.

I've never heard of a pulled up horse or a horse put down being turned back to the original owner via a voided claim. Are such horses tested, and if so, does anyone know of a case when the horse was turned back?

Thanks.

[CA Michael]

That is an interesting question. I went to the CHRB website to find an answer (for California racing at least).

There appears to be no absolute rule. The CHRB retains the right to rescind any claim; I suppose if a claimant discovered that his new horse had broken down as a result of an action which violated state law, he could petition the CHRB to rescind it.

Here's the link. How do you read it?

http://chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regu ... argument=7

[Rokeby Forever]

Michael, it looks like there is no rule. And - why should the new owner have to draw the sample himself and test it...isn't it the State's responsibility to do that?

You know these people - wanna call them tomorrow and ask?

[CA Michael]

I just emailed a friend of mine who races about 30 horses in CA, and who regularly claims at the 50-100,000 level. Several of these claims has pulled up badly, etc., so he's in the perfect position to know how it might work. He might need to check first with his lawyer, but when he replies I'll post it here.

[Rokeby Forever]

Gracias, chico!

[CA Michael]

He called me right in the middle of writing that last post--he's as curious about the rule as we are. And as we discovered as we studied it, it was adopted 30 years ago!!! Imagine, with all the new drugs, procedures and unsavory characters around today, that the rule governing claims hasn't been revised since Forego won the Woodward Stakes over Honest Pleasure!

The CHRB just recently hired trainer/attorney Darrell Vienna to review and propose changes to these very CHRB rules. (Price tag=over $300,000!). Darrell is one of those squeaky clean trainers who will come down hard on a relic like this one.

Thanks for introducing the subject.

[Rokeby Forever]

Imagine...our 15 minutes of fame care of Pedigreequery! LOL!

[angelsprite]

Claiming rules depend on the jurisdiction, of course, but I believe most jurisdictions have followed the old rules that if the horse drops dead after stepping foot on the sand, it's owned by the guy who claimed it. On the other hand, EPO has changed the claiming rules, at least in some jurisdictions. If a horse tests for EPO, the claim is voided because the horse is considered unfit for racing. That is what I've read and understood. If there are extremely new, cutting edge rules, maybe someone could research that and post it. That way I can continue to be lazy and just let someone download it to me. LOL.

[majxmom]

I paddocked a mare at GGF that broke off a hind ankle at the start of the race just like Barbaro. We had to stand for forever in that damned ambulance while they drew blood and signed forms before they would put her down. So there is no question in my mind that had there been a claim involved, there would have been blood drawn.

Personally, I think that if there had been a positive test and you wanted to void a claim, it would happen, but you would have to get a lawyer before it would be done.

Years ago in NorCal after a claim, you just switched halters and handed the lead rope over to the new groom and the new barn cooled it out. Then there was a situation where a claimed horse came up with a positive test. The old trainer claimed that anything could have happened after the horse was out of his custody, like the new groom touching the horse's mouth, and so he shouldn't be held responsible. This was upheld, and now we have to cool out a horse that has been claimed from you (I actually prefer this as it gives you a little time to get over the shock). They always take blood, but you don't always have to pee if they are busy.

[Benevolus]

I am pretty sure you are stuck with whatever you buy. You can buy insurance of some type for the time the claim is put in until you get them in your barn.