Big Brown could be a big bust as a stallion based on hes pedigree which has very little black type and why pay tons of money to breed to a son of Boundary. He is a freak who wins with such ease and with his pedigree he should continue running because he has more to prove racing rather than to be the next $100,000 stud fee horse who becomes a flop at stud. How is Smarty Jones worth a $100,000 stud fee? Look at Conquistador Cielo a son of Mr. Prospector who was syndicated for a record price at the time and never really set the world on fire as a stallion. Fusaichi Pegasus another son of Mr. Prospector stallion was over priced and we are talking sons of Mr. Prospector. Mr. Prospector may be the best stallion that ever lived so what are the chances of a son of Boundary flopping at stud even if his name is Big Brown?
Keith
Big Brown could be a Big Bust as a stallion
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
He could be a flop or he could be a phenom..
I mean they said the exact same thing about Seattle Slew.
Who knows?
There are so many well bred horses that are bombs at stud.
Then again there are so many horses that weren't expected to do well that did.
It's impossible to predict.
Wanna talk about weak families.....Look at Danzig's.
I think at the time, he was considered a very "weak" stallion prospect despite being by Northern Dancer.
Time will tell.
I mean they said the exact same thing about Seattle Slew.
Who knows?
There are so many well bred horses that are bombs at stud.
Then again there are so many horses that weren't expected to do well that did.
It's impossible to predict.
Wanna talk about weak families.....Look at Danzig's.
I think at the time, he was considered a very "weak" stallion prospect despite being by Northern Dancer.
Time will tell.
Seattles Slews dam prduced two classic winners
Seattle Slew's dam produced two classic winners including Lomond who won the Two Thousand Guineas in England. Bold Reasoning had a very short career as a stallion. Danzig is by Northern Dancer a superior sire of sires. Look at Spectacular Bid a great runner by a stallion who sired more than one Kentucky Derby winner but Bold Bidder never really turned out as a sire of sires. Secretariat may be the greatest runner of all time along as be one of the best bred of all time and he never really turned out to be a top sire even being bred to the best mares in the world. Seattle Slew is out of one of the greatest broodmares of all time.
Keith
Keith
I read an article recently regarding BB's stallion outlook-looked for it and couldn't find it. Basically it stated that because of the highly inbred nature of BB's pedigree and the fact that it did not create a loss in "Hybrid Vigor" that historically these kinds of stallions become very influential.
-
George William Smith
- Restricted Stakes Winner
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:48 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta
- Contact:
Seattle Slew out of one of the best broodmares of all time, now that's a real leap of faith, not born by facts. She was good, no doubt. But since her first foal was a huge winner, she was bred to the best stallions available and could not get anything near Seattle Slew again.
Impossible to find that the female family of Boundary is weak. We are talking Ponte Vecchio and Terentia who both had only a few foals yet plenty of pizaazz
The highest GSV score in the field of 20 and since GSV means Genetic Strength, means exactly the opposite, he is not a freak, he is instead running to his numbers
That said, most stallions fail and fail miserably, despite excellent race records so he could easily fail, especially if breeders have such a misguided opinion of his pedigree such as yours.
Are you sure you don't own a rival stallion......lol
Impossible to find that the female family of Boundary is weak. We are talking Ponte Vecchio and Terentia who both had only a few foals yet plenty of pizaazz
The highest GSV score in the field of 20 and since GSV means Genetic Strength, means exactly the opposite, he is not a freak, he is instead running to his numbers
That said, most stallions fail and fail miserably, despite excellent race records so he could easily fail, especially if breeders have such a misguided opinion of his pedigree such as yours.
Are you sure you don't own a rival stallion......lol
Well the "deal" is off until after the Preakness.
I'm sure those who are going to be the ones shelling out the dough for this horse as a stud want to make sure about what they are purchasing.
And of course IAEH could be making the big media play too....
I'm sure those who are going to be the ones shelling out the dough for this horse as a stud want to make sure about what they are purchasing.
And of course IAEH could be making the big media play too....
A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio
Re: Seattles Slews dam prduced two classic winners
Keith wrote:Seattle Slew's dam produced two classic winners including Lomond who won the Two Thousand Guineas in England. Bold Reasoning had a very short career as a stallion. Danzig is by Northern Dancer a superior sire of sires. Look at Spectacular Bid a great runner by a stallion who sired more than one Kentucky Derby winner but Bold Bidder never really turned out as a sire of sires. Secretariat may be the greatest runner of all time along as be one of the best bred of all time and he never really turned out to be a top sire even being bred to the best mares in the world. Seattle Slew is out of one of the greatest broodmares of all time.
Keith
Before Seattle Slew she wasn't.
Lomond and Seattle Dancer were both foaled AFTER Slew.
At the time, his pedigree was considered weak. Sorry.
-
wallinga
- Restricted Stakes Winner
- Posts: 768
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:41 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
And none of them were a twinkle when Seattle slew retired to stud.
had it not been for the slew, his dam would never have hooked up with ND and Nijinsky, and lets not get carried away calling Seattle Dancer a star.
Who's to say Mien won't geta crack at AP Indy or Distorted Humour now and produce her own Lomond?
had it not been for the slew, his dam would never have hooked up with ND and Nijinsky, and lets not get carried away calling Seattle Dancer a star.
Who's to say Mien won't geta crack at AP Indy or Distorted Humour now and produce her own Lomond?
wallinga wrote:And none of them were a twinkle when Seattle slew retired to stud.
had it not been for the slew, his dam would never have hooked up with ND and Nijinsky, and lets not get carried away calling Seattle Dancer a star.
Who's to say Mien won't geta crack at AP Indy or Distorted Humour now and produce her own Lomond?
So true. Her dance card will definitely go up. It will be interesting to see.
How many mares produce two classic winners?
How many mares produce 2 classic winners? My Charmer,Better Than Honour, and Weekend Surprise come to mind. If you consider the Kentucky Oaks a classic than you have to mention Dear Birdie. As far as dams of multiple Breeder's Cup winners there is Primal Force and Hasili. Then there is Flaming Page the dam of English Triple Crown winner Nijinsky II and the 2nd dam of Irish and Epsom Derby winner The Minstrel. Klepto produced multiple champions including Horse of The Year Criminal Type and Champion Turf Mare Estrapade. Ballade produced champions Devil's Bag and Glorious Song as well as Leading sire Saint Ballado. Somethingroyal produced Secretariat and Sir Gaylord. Shenanigans produced Ruffian and Icecapade. Aspidistra is the dam of Dr. Fager and Ta Wee. Too Bald is the dam of Exceller, Capote, and Baldski. Plucky Liege is the dam of Sir Gallahad III and Bull Dog. My Charmer may not be one of the greatest mares in the same league as La Troienne, Plucky Liege, Somethingroyal, Almahmoud, Weekend Surprise, Too Bald, Aspidistra, Hildene, Mumtaz Begum, or other great mares of that caliber but I would still say she is one of the greatest mares of all time and how many mares produce a Triple Crown winner and a classic winners on 2 continents?
Keith
Keith
-
wallinga
- Restricted Stakes Winner
- Posts: 768
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:41 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: How many mares produce two classic winners?
Keith wrote:How many mares produce 2 classic winners? My Charmer,Better Than Honour, and Weekend Surprise come to mind. If you consider the Kentucky Oaks a classic than you have to mention Dear Birdie. As far as dams of multiple Breeder's Cup winners there is Primal Force and Hasili. Then there is Flaming Page the dam of English Triple Crown winner Nijinsky II and the 2nd dam of Irish and Epsom Derby winner The Minstrel. Klepto produced multiple champions including Horse of The Year Criminal Type and Champion Turf Mare Estrapade. Ballade produced champions Devil's Bag and Glorious Song as well as Leading sire Saint Ballado. Somethingroyal produced Secretariat and Sir Gaylord. Shenanigans produced Ruffian and Icecapade. Aspidistra is the dam of Dr. Fager and Ta Wee. Too Bald is the dam of Exceller, Capote, and Baldski. Plucky Liege is the dam of Sir Gallahad III and Bull Dog. My Charmer may not be one of the greatest mares in the same league as La Troienne, Plucky Liege, Somethingroyal, Almahmoud, Weekend Surprise, Too Bald, Aspidistra, Hildene, Mumtaz Begum, or other great mares of that caliber but I would still say she is one of the greatest mares of all time and how many mares produce a Triple Crown winner and a classic winners on 2 continents?
Keith
That My charmer is a top mare is beyond repute, but the fact of the matter is that when Seattle Slew retired... he was it.
Mien may pay a visit to Mr Greeley or Smart Strike or Giant's Causeway and throw an English 2000 Guineas winner or an English derby winner.
Big Brown's female history is not written in stone. the triple crown would be a hell of a recommendation to a commercial breeder.
Sam wrote:FTR... Mien has the following foals:
2007 filly by Touch Gold
2006 My Chestnut Girl filly by Horse Chestnut
2005 Big Brown colt by Boundary
2004 Snake River Canyon colt by Gulch (I swear I think I just saw this one run recently)
Snake River Canyon ran at Churchill sometime in the last week or two -- definitely after the Derby.
-
ratherrapid
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1276
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:04 pm
- Location: kansas city, missouri
- Contact: