best and worst racetracks

[sulphurfire]

All tracks vary in many different ways, distance, surface, width, etc. I go quite a bit to Delta Downs here in Louisiana, now it seems to me that the track here is fairly rough on a horse and his/her legs I've seen quite a few break down coming out of the final turn. Quite a few of them never walk off and usually it seems(from where I'm at) to be the fetlock area for those who don't make it. Here are the facts on the track:

Main track dimensions: 6 furlong oval with two chutes--a 550-yard (QH) 1 1/16-mile (TB) chute and a 5-furlong chute
The track surface is a mixture of sand (from the Sabine river) and clay with a limestone base
Length of stretch: 660 feet
Width of stretch: 80 feet
Width of backstretch and turns: 70 feet
Track is banked with a 5% rise down the straight-a-way and 10% incline on turns
Maximum field size is 10

My question is how much of this could be attributed to the racing surface itself versus other factors(bad conformation, bad training, luck etc.) and are some tracks known as being either easier on horses or particularly hard on them?

[wilf]

There are many factors that contribute to breakdowns on the track. A number of otherwise intelligent people have tried to attribute these awful spectacles to one certain factor which is nonsense. You can start with track surface composition, track size and camber on the turns, weather patterns including the season and how the heat/cold affect the surface, then you can get a little closer to the zone when you check out the trainer/breakdown stats which may point you in the direction of trainers who keep horses running long after the party is over.Add in a few vets that just do as the trainer wishes as far as pre-race medication goes and Commission vets that do not police the barn area as perhaps they should .All these factors contribute to a horses demise and remember it takes an awful lot of wrong turns to bust a horse down given that they have been evolving for thousands of years.I know that they are not designed to carry weight when running fast but certain bloodlines seem to make it look like second nature.Therein lies another strong factor, conformation and pedigree which manifest their influence race after race .Then of course you will notice proportiontely more breakdowns at the lower end of the claiming ladder and at the tracks that host them. So its a mess but I will tell you without a doubt that if you have a confident , decisive track superintendant who takes his job seriously then you have a head start if you are training and racing on that surface.Several years ago at Fort Erie Racerack we had a trackman named Brian Jableman and he was married to the track surface , I reckon his wife wasn"t too pleased. Anyway he did a tremendous job and complaints were few and far between which is a miracle in the racing game.One year, perhaps in 99 or 2000 we had 100 days racing and not one catastrophic breakdown NOT ONE.That is worthy of sainthood because I am convinced that his management of the track contributed enormously to that statistic. Regards

[adrienne]

<<Then of course you will notice proportiontely more breakdowns at the lower end of the claiming ladder and at the tracks that host them. >>

True enough.

Remember though, Delta Downs is going to look like paradise compared to some tracks.

I went to a weekend meet at a track on the Nebraska fair circuit (it was my birthday weekend so I was up for some adventure)... a 6f track... terrible surface. Couldn't imagine that they were running on it. But even given that - I think the overridding factor on those horses is that those horses are at the very bottom rung of the ladder.

I hear stories of Prairie Meadows going through a TERRIBLE time the season after they reopened due to a simple track problem - tragic.

~Adrienne

[ageecee]

FG is an excellent track to train on.

[BenB]

The most breakdowns, are caused by jockeys, who are racing at the rail
side than turning out for need of room and then turns in again, and changing the speed level, put the breaks in, using the whip for higher speed, and starting all over again. So the worse jockeys causes the most breakdowns, esspecial the ones who tends to be nerveous.

Ben

[sulphurfire]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
AMazing stats on that season wilf.
Ageecee why do you think the FG's so good to train at?
And I can see what is being said about horses not breaking down overnight, how much do ya'll think that that is relative to the training versus the surface? I've seen and heard some pretty poor trainers out there, even had one who said a horse that will run good for you will never stay sound(of course he lost half of his babies due to recurrent shin bucks and never had luck with anything but the older claiming horses).
And BenB alot of these horses I was referring to where older claimers (5 to 6 year olds) usually ridden by one of the riders in the top five here at Delta Downs. Could you explain to me better why you feel so strongly about it being the jockeys fault?

[BenB]

Worse jockeys on mostly worse horses causing lots of troubles in a race
mostly by misjudging early speed, stamina how to place a horse in the field etc. So all the jockeys involved have to take actions because of this, by pulling
their horse out to bring them in a better position, than asking for an effort
to improve position. And during that movements, the horse has to find its balance gooiing a 40 miles an hour. So it is not only because worse jockeys are directly involved in an breakdown for instance, but just because they are involved anyhow.
Beside this of course, tracks conditions, as well as breeding, as well as condition of the horse all does mater. In the closing stages of any race the horses getting tired, and lose their balance, and their co ordination in how and where to place their feets. Together with the fast upgooiing speed it causes extra troubles for the ones who are lacking stamina etc.
Sadly i can,t explain myself better in English as it is not my native language.

[wilf]

Hey Sulphur I guess I am just burnt out by watching trainers do dumb stuff day after day. I long to talk with those that do not just follow the training chart but work from gut feeling and intuition.So often I see guys send out horses to work in atrocious conditions after bad weather and I shake my head.Its the same old story, when things go awry its someone elses fault when I have always felt that as a trainer , the buck stops here. Its our job description to care for the animal and proceed with its training in a proper manner to ensure fitness and readiness on raceday. These days you can obtain a trainers licence through many back doors, its a joke and it diminiushes the trainers role as so many half-wits and fast talkers are seen posing for win photos when in reality they haven"t seen the ball since kickoff. I could rant for hours but its superbowl day however I will reiterate that most breakdowns stop at the trainers door. The owners are obliged to seek out a reputable trainer and not do a deal with the cheapest ,especially if you like your horse, then leave that person to do the job. They have saying in Australia" its no use having a dog and barking yourself"..........to be continued.

[henthorn]

As owners, we have to assume a lot of the responsibility ourselves. We may push a horse to train too early, too fast, to race too often or when unfit, in the wrong hands, or in the wrong company. Much of this is due to our own personal pride and arrogance, greediness, and impatience.

Find a trainer that will work with you instead of at cross-purposes, and both having enough experience and good sense to listen to what the other says, and to part company if communication doesn't lead to continuing confidence.

In my history, I tended to be too trusting of my trainers' abilities and motivation, even when things didn't "feel" right. And I had a hard time saying "no" when she/he wanted to go against my wishes. The most common errors were placing a horse above his ability level, and having a horse unfit for a particular race. Another is in using apprentice jockeys to get a five pound weight allowance, when the horse and trainer actually need the experience of a journeyman to find subtle problems and help work through them.

[BenB]

Henthorn all the things you mentioned in your post, are all so true.
The only thing our trainer is telling to us, and to many of our trainers stable clients,
you,re to easy on your filly for giving her a good change, and you,re having not enough faith in her.
So I leave it up to him, he,s a skillsman, no doubt about that.
And we are most glad that he is training ours.


Ben

[wilf]

The Beauty of this message board is that it is worldwide and its certainly a treat to read Ben B and his insights into the worldwide game that all of us here embrace in fact I boldly proclaim that Horseracing is the worlds most universal pastime.It has the most incredible history that would astound even seasoned afficionados on this message board. Did you know that Racing in the form as we know it was conducted at Chester in England in the 1500s on the banks of the River Dee at the Roodeye Course on ground that was used by the Romans long before, in fact in these times you can watch the races for free from the city walls that were built by the Romans . This is a mighty heritage that we carry on and I love that folks from all over choose to join the fray. Keep writing Ben B and even if your English is a little awry we still get the drift and it is WAY superior to my Dutch.Oh and yes Henthorn I know what you mean, very best wishes with your stock.

[ageecee]

Sulphur,

Everyone raves about the surface at FG and thats coming from the top trainers. If you have ever been on it you know what im talking about. Its not 3 feet deep like Delta is-damn they got to fix that track.

[She's a Devil Due]

Track conditions are a very important factor in maintaining
soundness in racehorses. Most of these horses are adapting to
surface changes every few months as they ship from one track
to another. Basically, all track surfaces can be unforgiving
to a 1000 lb animal travelling at any speed faster than a walk. I
have watched sound horses break down and sore horses win, at
every level in the game.

Churchill Downs, for all of the prestige it is afforded, sucks
to train on, Keeneland has a better training track than main
track most of the time. Hawthorne was like concrete this year
and Arlington was better than it has been in past years. But
all tracks have their share of breakdowns in the morning and
at the races, whether due to trainer negligence, track surface,
conformation faults or just a bad step.

Advice to owners-do your homework before choosing a trainer,
you get what you pay for. And not everyone slips through the
back door The written portion of my test alone took
three hours to complete. Some of us have worked very hard
to become licensed.

[BenB]

I,ve to admit something, our filly is in training by our champion trainer maybe this is explaining some more

Ben

[sulphurfire]

Thanks for the replies everyone. And I agree with wilf, BenB, your English is way better than my Dutch.
And ageecee, I've walked a few across at DD and can say that it's not the best surface. The rumor going around right now is that they are planning on building a new race course.
On just a side note about Delta Downs and walking horses over, one night I did see a horse get away, after the race from its handler and wound up swimming in the infield pond for a couple of minutes before it climbed out.