Jumpers to the flat

[Shammy Davis]

There is an interesting article in Feb. M-Atlantic TB about the Tom Voss trained horse Dreadnaught. Although we often think of flat runners turning to jump, Tom is doing just the reverse with some of chargers who don't initially show athleticism on the flat. Dreadnaught is one subject in particular which may interest those of us who want to bring an under achiever around. Anyone have any similar experiences? Sincerely, Shammy

[Joe]

Shammy, I'm going to beat you with a bag of rocks. The Tom Voss hurdles to flat angle has been a consistent big winner for me over the years at Saratoga, at big prices.

You let my secret out.

[Shammy Davis]

Joe: Before you beat up on me, let's clean up the sport. I've never met Tom Voss, but I'm very impressed with his percentages and his techniques. I read everything I can regarding his stable. Best wishes - Shammy

[ballade]

I absolutely love his strategy. I can hardly wait to see Dreadnaught run again. Unconventional and brilliant!

[madelyn]

What you might think is unconventional some would say is old-fashioned... some of the origins of flat racing lay in those bluebloods of yore who loved their horses more than their wives and spent their time galloping the countryside jumping fences and hedges. Steeplechasing was that, running from "steeple to steeple." They bred better horses and to prove it would now and then line up for a Saturday run to see whose horse was fastest. They were ridden all the time, and jumping was a big part of their fitness regime.

The difference, though, is that those horses were allowed to grow up before they started racing. If you think training a horse under the age of four can ruin him, believe that jumping a horse that young will most certainly ruin him.

[Shammy Davis]

Madelyn: The article in M-Atlantic TB eludes to the fact that this method works best with large juveniles who are having difficulty keeping their legs and hooves under them. Make sense to me. HMMMMM, this method might work for me, I've always had trouble keeping my balance . Best wishes - Shammy

[madelyn]

I think it would work if the obstacles were not too large! For both you and the horses, Shammy... let me know if you want help designing a course!

[Shammy Davis]

Madelyn: All course designs should include a couple of really cold bottles of New Castle Brown Ale at the finish line to insure that I can recover from the exertion and lost of electrolytes. Optional is two bottles of the same at the start. One 2.6 inch jump between the steeples will be all I can handle. Put that jump no more than two feet inside the start line so if I do lose my balance medical attention will be readily available. As always thanks for the offer of help.

[madelyn]

Shammy, Shammy, are you trying to copy the Upper Class Twit of the Year contest in Monty Python's And Now for Something Completely Different? I would say if you make it over the obstacle you may have all the brown ale you want but you shouldn't have any before you run. Think Salix. Reduce the overall fluid in your system. Note, you can use matchboxes like they did in the movie....just don't do that revolver scene at the end of the race.

[Joe]

Shammy, I'll forego the rocks because our board has gotten so small. Voss had Jose Espinosa riding all his horses in the morning up at Saratoga last year. He was taking younger horses, in the 5-7 range, who had run in jumps and hurdles and turning them back on turf. Often if was a prep for a hurdle stake. It is fantastic strategy that Jonathan Sheppard has done for years. A 1 3/8 turf race is a perfect blowout for a 2 3/4 hurdle.

Never underestimate Tom Voss.

[Shammy Davis]

Madelyn, Joe, & all: Madelyn, you are absolutely right, I shouldn't consume brown ale prior to physical exertion, so when you design my course everything stays the same except eliminate the optional start line ale in favor of a 12 pack of New Castle or Bass at the finish. If I'm going to bleed from the nostrils, I want to do it right. Tipsy and painless!

Joe: This jump to flat stuff is very interesting. I live in VA fox hunting country and their are so many opportunities to work our horses. I just didn't make the connection until the article and your post. Here you are getting out of racing in favor of breeding and here I am starting a breeding operation wanting to train and race. Someday soon, I'm going to visit you at the track @ Philly and pick your brain over some liquid refreshment. Leave the rocks home. We'll let the bartender supply them.

As always dear folks, best wishes - Shammy

[Denise]

I read this thread with great interest, Shammy. Joe knows our trainers and some of our horses, and is aware they train in the same manner (on a smaller scale) as the great turfers/jumpers like Voss and Shepperd.
While they're not out leaping over 5ft. timber, they are schooling the babies and older horses by jogging, over little jumps and logs in the woods, etc., in addition to breezes over hill and dale. Our oldest gelding is the lead pony on these jaunts. He loves to jump and he loves to teach the babies not to be afraid of new things. It seems to help them a lot in the case of losing stride over shadows, in particular.
By their nature, horses love to jump. For our older charges, jumping during regular training staves off boredom. They look forward to their works every day, because every day will be different. By the time they get to the flat course at the track, it seems a piece of cake compared to their stairmaster workouts!
I invite you all (if you can get to Marlborough, MD) April 10th to the hunt meet. We're sending a vanload of ours for their first "semi" official races of the season. It's a great start for us every year, providing the weather stays good and the course, with just a bit of "give."

[Shammy Davis]

Denise: April is a pretty cluttered month with some of our mares due to pop and be bred back. I'd love to be there and maybe I can work it. Let's cross our fingers. Sincerely, Shammy

[monicabee]

Denise, that sounds like fun. Hopefully the weather will cooperate!

Joe, re the steeplechase trainers running horse in the flat races - had you bet this angle every time it occurred at Saratoga last summer, you would have doubled your money! Someone mentioned this angle to me early on in the meet and I decided to track it. I ws intrigued by the results and asked a steeplechase trainer what the secret was: he said, in short, they bring their best horses there; the horses are never worked for speed, they want them to relax and still have a closing kick;, and the horses are get turnout (at the Annex where the steeplechasers are stalled, they have paddocks! and a warmup area! and lots of grass for hand grazing!) and the winter off - so they are physically and mentally prepared, perhaps more so than the horses that race the NYRA circuit all year.

[Denise]

A filly we bought as a yearling and raced for two years, Withorwithoutyou, won her first start ever over the jumps (2 miles) this weekend in NC, beating a field of boys and girls We sold her last fall to Magalen O. Bryant. She's trained by Doug Fouts and was ridden by Matt McCarron.
The trainer told Wendy she "did it easily, for fun."
I hope we can get our new With Approval filly on the same path. It's nice to get the turfers going well, then find a secondary market for them that they enjoy. "With" was always the best jumper in Wendy and Travis' barn.