Union Rags Retired

diomed · Postby **diomed** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:13 pm

SHOCKER!!! :shock:

............. :twisted:

(actually, I called it the day of the injury announcement)

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:31 pm

run a horse in 2 preps at gulfstream, run him in the derby, run him in the belmont, injuried retired.

last year, run a horse in a gloried claiming race, run him in the wood where he is short, run him the kings bishop and in the Forego (or kelso i get them mixed up just like i get the real horses mixed up), tank the classic, retired.

I mean, u just can't lolly gag along a horse at this level and think you can throw the horses saddle cloth on the track and that he is just going to be a okay.

zinn21 · Postby **zinn21** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:43 pm

Well another 10 starts or less horse bites the dust. I read the major factor for retiring him now was the fear he would fail to get back to his previous form making him worth less as a stallion prospect.

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:00 pm

keep upping breeders awards and the only money to be made will be in stud fees and breeders awards. No surprise the owner didn't want the product to get cold sitting on the shelf and hoping for a maybe comeback.

Barcaldine · Postby **Barcaldine** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:03 pm

Another talented horse damaged by warp-speed training previews, courtesy of your local pinhooker.

DDT · Postby **DDT** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Regardless of any damage from the pinhooking experience, he is being retired while in the limelight, wait too long and it may not be easy to work a deal. He did show a lot of talent and may make a very good stallion, time will tell.

DDT

FOS · Postby **FOS** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:53 pm

hi Barcaldine

Barcaldine wrote:Another talented horse damaged by warp-speed training previews, courtesy of your local pinhooker.

I don't get a sense that's the case with Union Rags. Does your logic really compute?

You're blaming a pinhooker who, 1/ broke and trained a colt foal (born on March 3, 2009); that was, 2/ just 3 days shy of being a full 2-yo when he worked a very good 10.1 (not "warp speed" [as you suggested] at the Fasig March select 2-yo sale, where many worked in 10.1, and some a whole lot faster...including 9.3, 9.4 for example); then, 3/ that colt (Union Rags) went on to win a G1 (the Champagne), and finished 2nd in the G1-BC Juvenile; then, 4/ was runner-up for 2-yo eclipse honors; then, 5/ went on, as-a 3yo, to win the Belmont-G1.

Bottom line, Union Rags accomplished plenty...as has talented Eddie Woods, the fellow/pinhooker who you are apparently blaming :wink:

for Union Rags' success

.

If you're displeased with the reality that is 2-yo in training sales...I hear ya. But I would expect that most would be thrilled to have a horse accompish what Union Rags has.

Best to ya.

Respectfully

Barcaldine · Postby **Barcaldine** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:21 pm

Hi FOS,

I believe that no good comes from the fast previews. Whether 9.4 or 10.1 seconds for 220 yards, it's TOO DAMN FAST for young horses. It cooks their minds and their bodies. I've studied 2yo sales performances for years, the Barretts Sales in particular, and reached the conclusion that many talented racehorses sold through these beauty contests do not fulfill their potential.

If you would like to see my 10 year study of Barretts Sales fastest previewers, their prices, starts, wins, earnings, etc., send me a pm with your email address. The facts are staggering.

ElPrado · Postby **ElPrado** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:24 pm

I can remember one that went for $16 million that was pretty much useless.

DDT · Postby **DDT** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:30 am

Barc

I would be willing to wager that a 10 year study of yearling sales would match your stats for 2 year old sales. It makes one wonder why any person would pay serious money for any sale horse, but then there might be another Seattle Slew among the yearlings for 17.5K or 2 year old such as I'll Have Another for 35K, so there is no shortage of buyers. I believe that A.P. Indy is the only top selling yearling to earn more than his purchase price. I also agree that preparation for sale as a 2 year old has proven to be very detrimental to future racing ability.

DDT

stlouiskid · Postby **stlouiskid** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:20 am

I think Barcaldine makes a very valid point. The horse obviously was extremely talented and a great athlete. There is no doubt in my mind that he would have talented whether Eddie Woods broke him or not.
What is for sure is the horse was pushed from day one after he went through the August yearling sale.
Would he have held up longer and prolonged his career, if they had waited until he was more developed, before they put the pedal to the medal? My gut tells me, oh yea.

deaky · Postby **deaky** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:44 am

Well, that's enough. I've been around for some years, I know this happen again and again... Nothing new, no concern.

But after I've read about Union Rags, you know what was my first thought?
I believe that from it's beginning, horse-racing is supposed to be a TESTING. With three year olds injured a going straightly to the stallion barns, what the hell do we test???
Their ability to break down as soon as possible???

What is the point of "turning" all those young, speedy horses, bringing new and another new ones, let them crash at the racetrack and breed their progeny?
Well, it's making money - and what else??? I want something more! Ain't there nobody else like me???

What's pretty funny?
Probably the greatest horses from the past few years are exactly by VERY DIFFERENT STALLIONS than those "fast-and-fastly-injured" types!
Curlin - by Smart Strike - best at 4, defeated Serena's Song in Philip H. Iselin.
Rachel Alexandra - by Medaglia d'Oro - multiple Gr.1 winner and placet at 4 and 5.
Zenyatta - by Street Cry - won Dubai World Cup and Stephen Foster at 4.
Havre de Grace - by Saint Liam - multiple Gr.1 and BC Classic winner at 5!!!

Want more?
Ghostzapper - by Awesome Again - multiple Gr.1 and BC Classic winner at 4.
Azeri - by Jade Hunter - multiple Gr.1 winner at 4.
Blind Luck - by Pollard's Vision - multiple Gr.1 placed at 4.

Only a few I that came to my mind...
Well, then... what, except of short-term fashion and some money, is the point of breeding and than standing those youngsters, that can't make it even to the end of their 3yo season? :shock:

zinn21 · Postby **zinn21** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:22 am

I would in general agree that fast previews at an early age is dangerous but the big problem, IMO, is there is no recovery time given for bone and tissue to strengthen. These babies are put in training in the fall of their yearling year and stressed with little recovery time. In UR case he was placed in training in the Fall of 2010; went through the sale and made his first start in July 2011. He had three and a half months between the BC Juvenile and the Fountain Of Youth. Probably had no more than thirty days off before he was pounding the ground again. IMO, a horse needs at least 75 days of doing nothing but pasture for a complete recovery and remodel of bone and tissue strengthening to take place. That's why these horse end up hurt every year on the Derby trail. They are pounded on with no time to recover. And the attrition rate doesn't seem to matter if they are 2's that go through the Training Sales or 2's that start in the fall or winter at two and grind on through the Derby trail..

Prairie · Postby **Prairie** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:32 pm

We know that UR, IHA and Bode had the talent, drive and athleticism to compete in Triple Crown Races. We also know that they didn't have the physicality and endurance to race past the middle of their third year.

Are they retired due to their training regime, pedigree or individual physical weaknesses? We'll never know.

I hope the breeders willing to use them at stud will take this into consideration when raising, training and campaigning their babies.