horse racing's image problem

[bdw0617]

i was watching football today with some friends and the topic of frankel's race came up as a few of us are horse racing fans, and i got an interesting point of view

being involved with racing on a daily basis, you tend to get sucked in to your own world. you hear things everyday, you equate that with what does matter, you start to self diagnose things that you think are the problem but alot of the times, i do not think that the end result is an accurate snap shot beucse of the spetrum that you are involved with things on a daily basis.

I mean, horse racing has a drug problem. so does every other sport. this isn't what is killing racing, I mean, it's not helping whatsoever and it's hurting but this isn't the big scale problem that i think most think it is. it's something we want to reticify beucase i thinik that the more we rely on drugs it's to the detriment of the horse and eventually reduces the quality of year round racing, but again, it's not the number 1 problem as i see it.

it's not even injuries/breakdowns. again, it's not something that is helping at all.. and again it's something we want to fix. i don't know anyone who wants to see horses break down and i think just about everyone will do anything within reason to prevent this from happening.

I used to be of the school that we delude the product so much that we make it uninteresting, and i still think this holds some weight, but i don't think this is the grand scale problem.. for instance I mean, people love football.. the fact that there is high school football, college football, nfl football, and within all of the levels there are sub levels of football and just about all of them are thriving. i am taking my sister to a high school football game on Friday at Quigly stadium which is the stadium for central highs chool and thre will be every bit of 10 thousand people there, for a normal high school football game. there are high school teams in texas that avg 20-25 THOUSAND people a game. high school. let that sink in. and when you go to the game, you go knowing i mean, this isn't gonna be the new England patriots versus the denver broncos or anything. In other words, people are smart enough to know the different levels of racing and differentiate between them.


to much of my hardcore gamblers dismay it's not takeout.. the avg guy at the track cares about takeout about as much as i care about the night club watering down drinks.. i don't like it but i'm still gonna buy them. i'm not a professional drinker lol, i don't care, i just want to have fun, and that's how most people at the track are.


we were talking about frankel and one of my friends said.. horse racing is for billionares i just can't get into it.



and that my friend, is the problem with horse racing in this country in general.... horse racing has an image problem. everyone thinks it's for rich snobs.

what's funny about this the more you think about it is the following

1. it's not true. like, it's not even remotely close to being true. Just about everyone on this forum is somewhere between working and upper middle class. 80% of all races run in america are claiming races. meat and potatoes stuff. 323 days of the year there are no grade 1 races. that's 88.4% of the year.

now, sure, there are billionaires involved in racing, and you probably are better off having a lot of money to blow to have very high end success, but the game of horse racing per say is, never has been and never will be for millionares by and large.


2., it never was true lol. like, i can understand if horse racing has been trying to shake this image of millionaires running racing on every level and shunning everyone else, but it never HAS been the case. Meadow Stable, they weren't rich. they weren't poor at all but they weren't rich. they were business people in the business of horse racing. the vast majority of races are won by non rich people. i will be the first to admit that the upper end of racing there are some very rich people, but that's not all of racing. that's not even in retrospect, some of racing.

3. even if i were to give you the above that racing is a game that involves a bunch of millionares, how stupid is this logic? the NFL made 9 BILLION dollars in revenue last year. every Nfl team is owned by a billionaire just about, except maybe the steelers and the packers. every player on the roster is or extremely lose to being a millonare. I am associates with a guy that played for arkansas last year and got drafted b y the carolina panthers. he's one of the lowest paid players on his team and they gave him a 600k signing bonus with a 4 year 3 million dollar salary.

so fans have no prob elm following a game that is owned by billionaires and played by millionaires, yet when it comes with horse racing the fact that there are a few owners with money rubs some the wrong way.


It's an image problem. we go out of our way to show this image of horse racing that for the most part, doesn't exist. we are quick to tell people about the 2 million dollar yearling that got sold when it was 1 of 6 thousand horses at the sale, we are quick to tell people about the 10 million dollar race when there are over 100k races run world wide every year and less than 500 of them are worth more than 200k. less than 1000 races are worth more than 100k. we go out of our way to show this image of everyone dressed up to the 9's but you can go to the track 340 days a year and see most people in blue jeans and tee shirts.

what the NFL gets that horse racing never got is that even though, all of the NFL people have money, they come off as more, everyday people than horse racing people do. Jerry Jones is worth 1.2 billion dollars and is more accessible than phipps stable, who walk around like their crap doesn't stink beucase they won a few million dollar races. I went to the cotton bowl last year at jerry world, you can walk right upa nd shake Mr JOnes hand, he's very nice, very outgoing, 1.2 billion dollars. horse racing has a snobery uppity image probelm that rubs people the wrong way. it's not so much that the people have money or do well... beucase we get in this horse racing world you think that's all that is in the world and you start or these people start to lose touch with i don't know what to call it.. people just come off as way too snobish and uppity and not just one person, just about anyone who gets in front of a camera for anything horse racing related you would think you are talking to the vice president of the united states or something with how serious these people take themselves

[dublino]

Thats the most intelligent thing you are likely ever to say or have said.

Listen to the language they use also, words like "privileged" (a privilege is when you do something for someone and gain no reward) these assholes think that having money is a privilege or talking like your chewing a toffee or going to the right school etc etc

You swear they were curing cancer or aids, its a bloody farm animal running around an oval track.

Words also like "blessed", as if they were some mysterious force in the universe granting them thier "privilege".

And of course, they are also "humbled" by thier achievements, as if they are so above people that winning this brings them back down to our "humble" level.

And its been a long "journey" in getting were they are.

And lets not forget the "challenges" that they have faced.

but it has been "FUN".

Next time one of these clowns are being interviewed see how many times they use the bold words above.

[Blue feather]

I believe horse racing has the potential for tremendous growth. Image is certainly a huge problem. To the average person, the industry is insulated and complicated. Most people, outside of racing, have trouble knowing the difference between a filly and a mare. We are introduced and participate in football and many other sports at a young age. Our exposure to horse racing, as young people, is limited to the triple crown races and the Breeders Cup. If someone can figure out how to bridge the gap between the average person and the first hand excitement of racing, interest will rise. Speaking on a personal level, I have been involved on many levels in many different sports. Nothing approaches the excitement of watching your horse competing and winning a race. Figure out how to get the average person to experience that and you have a horse race fan for life.

[bdw0617]

Thats the most intelligent thing you are likely ever to say or have said.

Listen to the language they use also, words like "privileged" (a privilege is when you do something for someone and gain no reward) these assholes think that having money is a privilege or talking like your chewing a toffee or going to the right school etc etc

You swear they were curing cancer or aids, its a bloody farm animal running around an oval track.

Words also like "blessed", as if they were some mysterious force in the universe granting them thier "privilege".

And of course, they are also "humbled" by thier achievements, as if they are so above people that winning this brings them back down to our "humble" level.

And its been a long "journey" in getting were they are.

And lets not forget the "challenges" that they have faced.

but it has been "FUN".

Next time one of these clowns are being interviewed see how many times they use the bold words above.

I jokingly take offense to saying it's the most intelligent thing i will ever say but i do appreciate the sentiment seriously.

even van berg wins a race now and then

And lets not forget the "challenges" that they have faced.

I don't know what made me think of this particularly but i like the HRTV inside information shows i watch all of them. there is one where they are talking about Eddie Grayson. I mean you know the story, he committed suicide. on one side of the the issue they talked about his rationale for starting the grayson foundation and I mean that's great and all it really is i mean that, but like, every 4 sentences, they had to remind everyone that is watching that he comes from a very privileged background and has never had to worry about money. I'm not really exaggerating. "Grayson won this race and things were good. he went on a slump but beucase he had has never had to worry about money this was not a problem. he committed suicide, but we do know it was not because he had money problems beucase of his background" i am like okay we get it lol.

it's like they are more worried about making sure that everyone knows he was not poor than making sure everyone knows why he started teh Grayson foundation

[bdw0617]

I believe horse racing has the potential for tremendous growth. Image is certainly a huge problem. To the average person, the industry is insulated and complicated. Most people, outside of racing, have trouble knowing the difference between a filly and a mare. We are introduced and participate in football and many other sports at a young age. Our exposure to horse racing, as young people, is limited to the triple crown races and the Breeders Cup. If someone can figure out how to bridge the gap between the average person and the first hand excitement of racing, interest will rise. Speaking on a personal level, I have been involved on many levels in many different sports. Nothing approaches the excitement of watching your horse competing and winning a race. Figure out how to get the average person to experience that and you have a horse race fan for life.

that's the thing.

I am a football fabout:blankan. Football is much more complex than horse racing can ever dream of being. I'm not talking about handicapping we are talking about the being able to sit down and enjoy a game. the avg fan doesn't know nor particularly care about the differences between the 4-3, 3-4 or 3-3-5 defenses. they don't know how a guard is supposed to sale a screen pass to the defensive line so that it can work or the difference between the cronell and west coast offenses.

they just know they like football. it's fun to watch. horse racing is fun to watch. as a guy who grew up playing baseball and basketball i am telling you horse racing is just as fun to watch as both of those. As far as action it takes a back seat to no one.

but the problem with horse racing is that, the people in football don';t make the fans feel any less stupid beucase they don't understand these things. Bobby petrino is literally, an offensive genius. everyone who has ever coached with him has said this, in the NFL, his own dad, his brother, every other assistant coach he has ever had, he understands offense on a level that most people can't. yet as smart as this man is about offesnive strategy, and as pricky as he is personally.. he's not what you would call an outgoing guy, he has enough wearwithinal to sum up his offensive strategy in one very simple phase; pass to score, run to win.

the difference between football and horse racing is that football people, go out of their way to make very complex things, very simple to understand for avg people. they understand that avg people pay their salaries so event though they might not listen to the people or even value their input on pretty much any subject, they at least, dont' want to make them feel stupid and dont' want to exclude them by making them feel inferior.

horse racing takes the total opposite approach. not talking about things like night school that focuses on handicapping but you get these people on TV and they make things unnecessarily complex, they use verbiage that is meant to confuse and not simplify and in general, get off / try to make everyone else look inferior.

bobby petrino was the most popular man in the state of arknasas for 4 years and one of the richest, yet made it a habit to let himself be seen around town in places like wal mart or applebeas and stuff like that, or outside washing his wife's car.. he made it a habit of being seen as an averyday guy even if he isn't. this is a cobncept that horse racing has yet to come close to grasping.

the bottom line is, people get on hrtv and TVG and ESPN and they think it's their time to thump their nose at everyone or think it's time to show how good or how uppity they can be or how they went to school here or how they won this race and it needs to be time to show that hey we did this or we done this but man, i'm just like you.. even if i'm not lol.

horse racing has to convince people that it's not just a sport for snobs.

[zinn21]

I think the attrition rate plays a large role in Racing's lack of popularity. It's hard to build a fan base when your stars come and go in eight months. That's why Zenyatta was so popular-she was around for years.

[Linda_d]

I think the attrition rate plays a large role in Racing's lack of popularity. It's hard to build a fan base when your stars come and go in eight months. That's why Zenyatta was so popular-she was around for years.

This IMO is racing's really big image problem: too many successful horses don't stick around to become stars but get hustled off to the breeding shed even when they aren't injured.

If you go back to racing's "heyday" as a spectator sport, the 1930s and 1940s, you see horses running for years like Equipoise, Seabiscuit, Stymie and Citation, even coming back from serious injuries (Equipoise & Seabiscuit). Even in the 1950s and 1960s, it was usual for top three-year- olds to come back and run as four-year-olds. Bold Ruler was HOY in 1958 IIRC.

As a NASCAR fan, I can tell you that people attach to personalities in sports where there's NOT a team identity with a city/place or school. I used to be a much bigger fan back when Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, and Dale Earnhardt were dueling than I am now.

[jellac]

80% of all races run in america are claiming races. meat and potatoes stuff. 323 days of the year there are no grade 1 races. that's 88.4% of the year.

I've had this sort of 'wake up' call as recently as last year when I was TOTALLY AMAZED when my colleagues in a major international oil company's Legal Department came up to me after the first two or three episodes of the ill fated "Luck" and questioned the veracity of being able to "claim" a thoroughbred race horse right off the track as was depicted in that one season saga. They thought surely it was some contrivance cooked up by Hollywood writers to 'bring in the "little" guys' so the story would have broader appeal. Imagine their astounment when I replied, "Actually claiming races - just like the one depicted in the made for TV series make up at least 80% of every racing card in the country virtually every race day (save and except 'all stakes races days' programs like the Breeders' Cup, etc.) and yes, it is entirely possible for a 'bunch' of people to pool their money and 'claim' a horse - happens every day all over USA." They couldn't BELIEVE it !!!!! You could actually see the little wheels turning in their heads "WOW, maybe I COULD own a race horse?!?"

This is an aspect of our sport that is totally 'not promoted', 'not sold' and apparently is even something of an embarassment to the sport - WHY?!!? I think this is something that should really be re-thought by the leaders/powers that be in this sport. IT's an area/aspect of our sport that's unique and affords almost anyone the opportunity to "own" their own sport franchise for a few thousand dollars. What other sport can say that?!

I think it's a crying shame that Thoroughbred racing - as a sport/as an industry - does so little to play up this relatively accessable aspect of the sport. I always tell guests I take to the track that horse racing - unlike pro football/other sports - is THE MOST ACCESSIBLE sport franchise opportunity in the world. They all think I've been drinking the KoolAid when I say this. Then I explain: for as little as $2 (even less in some betting jurisdictions/races) you can temporarily "own" a piece of a racehorse someone paid $100ks for at auction, invested another $100k in training/shipping/etc, has paid to have the top jockey aboard for this race and if he wins, places or shows > you win (often by mulitples) over your orignal $2 investment. On top of that: you don't have to pay the jockey, the vet, the farrier, and you don't have to pay to feed and stable the horse etc. It's like having a chance to get the gravy without having to buy the roast!

Not 'high-dollar' enough for you?? Get some buds together with a little bit of gamble to them who enjoy going to the track. Pick out a trainer you can all agree on and ask him find you a claimer in your price range/be your trainer - one that offers you the chance to stand in the winner's circle and have your photo taken! *Just remember the latter 'afordable' option comes with ongoing costs of caring and training the horse, retiring him/re-careering him necessary/recommended, but it can be fun and even rather affordable. I had friends claim a local Tx-Bred for $4000 that hadn't won though he often came in 2nd. He ran every three weeks like clockwork, always trailed the field then came like a freight train down the stretch on the outside to 'just miss' taking first. I think he put together something like 14 outs with 13 seconds and one 3rd...racing at two different Texas tracks > the horse was paying his way (!), giving them the trills of a lifetime with each cavalry charge to the finish line and then by God! one night he actually won a race! Figuring there was no way he'd be competitive outside of maiden claiming ranks they retired him > he became a pony horse for his trainer > a job which he is still doing - and doing well - today. I think they had $2000.00 in their horseman's account after all was said and done and they went in on a 'big bet' on one of their trainer's other horses that was going off long odds and ended up each taking home about what they'd put in to begin with on their original claim.

[zinn21]

jellac wrote:

I think it's a crying shame that Thoroughbred racing - as a sport/as an industry - does so little to play up this relatively accessable aspect of the sport. I always tell guests I take to the track that horse racing - unlike pro football/other sports - is THE MOST ACCESSIBLE sport franchise opportunity in the world.

I think that's a good point and a really easy way for racing to grow their base but with one caveat. The industry needs to develop a business model for lower end horses, the horses that people can claim if you will, to be at least a break even proposition for the majority. You cannot sustain the claiming game and ultimately racing in general if purses for these horses are not increased relative to their expense. And you cannot grow ownership if 90% of said owners are losing significant dollars monthly.

[bdw0617]

both of you seem to be missing my point.

Look, I am going to give the avg thoroughbrd owner a tad bit of slack and assume that most of them dont' think that horse racing is the next get rick quick scheme, or even that they are guranteed to turn a profit. The way I see it, owning a race horse, even as part of a partnership requires that someone has relatively come into high levels of disposable income by being stupid.

Now, do we want to make it, less impossible to turn a profit sure that is a great thing to do. I'm not saying it's not, but that's not what I am talking about with my post.


The point of my post is this;


why even bother, seriously, ask yourself this question. Why even bother with trying to make a profit or not, if the best you can do is be a low end owner and the best that a low end owner can get in horse racing circles is their nose turned up at? What's the fun in that? Why would someone pay 30-50 thousand dollars a year to be told their are losers lol? This is the question that no one is asking and that everyone needs to be asking.

Everyone knows I'm a die hard arkansas razorback fan. I donate to the school athletic fund every year. I personally know what.. off the top of my head.. between 12-15 guys who donate at least 10 thousand dollars a year, with no possible return on investment other than to pat themselves on the back so they can say they did their part. And that's just what they send every march when the requests for season tickets comes out that's not counting if we make a really good hire here in December, the guys who just send an extra 5-7 thousand for shits and giggles to help the program out.

Let what i am about to say sink in.. In 2010 Bobby petrino was in negations after his sugar bowl appearance for a new contract. he really never wanted to leave but his one major sticking point was that we needed to have a football operations center. we were losing recruits to other schools beucase we didn't have the facilities.

so he put together this plan to build this kick ass state of the art building underground... coaches offices, meeting rooms, lounge, weight room, equipment room, etc. all in all this was gonna cost 35 million dollars.

now, this was agreed to in the very end of 2010. in December.

with no university money at all, and no tax payer money, it was paid off in full earlier this year. from nothing but donations. I donated $600 myself, and the entire building was built with 500-1000-2000-5000 dollar donations. with no possible return on investment.


you know, i'm using the wrong verbiage here. you know what the return on investment is?

enjoyment. People don't buy horses to make money. Most of them at least. People buy horses to have fun. Most people who buy horses have worked their ass off and now are at a level where they have some disposable income and want to spend a little having a little fun. maybe buy a horse and go to the track with the wife and kids and have the enjoyment of watching the family race horse win a race at Churchill downs under the twin spires or what if you own a state bred and it's good enough to race in state stake races and you actually win one on like say Louisiana stakes day when they have like 585 state bred stake races

that, is what horse racing ownership is about. love turning a profit. love ROI. this isnt' about ROI.

And I mean, from the bottom up, this is not how it works. you buy a partnership already you are shun by "real horse people" who look down at partnerships. never mind you busted your ass your entire life and you have made something of yourself and you have never owned a cat let alone a race horse and you want to dip your toe in the water before you make any rippes let alone waves, nope you are a loser lol

then if you don't have a 100 dollars day trainer you are a poor or a cheap skate or a loser, or even worse than all that, trying to find someone who you can use to dope your horses beucase that's the only reason you will ever use a non big time trainer.

you go to keeneland and you spend 10 thousand dollars on a horse, i Mean, the guy who spends the money doesn't think he just bought affirmed or anything but shit come on lol, treat the man with some respect.

if you donate 5 thousand dollars to the university of arkansas athetic department they

1. put your name AND picture in the media guide
2. give you first dibbs on season tickets
3. give you a freaking arkansas sports blazer. it's actually pretty nice
4. let you play in a golf tourney with arkansas sports facility
5. you get free tickets to the end of the year banquet


if you buy a 10 thousand dollar horse at keeneland, you get rounded up by the Keeneland gestapo and told you got like 30 mintues to get your POS horse off this damn property




and yet people wonder why we have no owners lol it's not the ROI. It's no freaking fun.

[zinn21]

BD, you ramble in your post. What is your point in a few sentences? Your $600 "enjoyment" donation to build the facility wouldn't pay a monthly feed bill. In other words you can't lose $600 on anything in the horse business unless you plan on owning a horse for two weeks.. The racing game cannot grow or continue when 90% of the horses in training are a financial loss.

So what is it ? It's not important to turn a profit in this game or people are stupid attempting to turn a profit or are wasting their time in the game?

[Whirlaway]

With all due respect, them there Hogs are getting their butts kicked this year. They were ranked in top 10 beginning of the year, got beat by a no name from Louisiana, got beat by Rutgers, took a shellacking from Alabama (52-0) . . . looking for another coach, the one they have isn't doin' so well - the one they had was given the boot earlier in the year after spilling his Harley with a too hot blonde coed on the back - was havin' an affair and lied about it (go get em' coach!).

So everyone that gave to the Razorback football fund is looking for enjoyment? How much enjoyment are you havin' this year? How about everyone that gave to the Razorback football fund is looking for the enjoyment that comes from winning and winning equals an invite to a bowl game and a bowl game equals money. I think likely the same thing with horse racin'.

With respect to the image thing . . . horse racing had its time in the sun, that time is gone never to return.

[Sylvie Hebert]

Well how fun is it going to the racetrack for the average joe'jack and jill??/

I love horses and it is not even fun for me as a spectator.I only go if I know a particular horse or I have one in.
Think about Mr X with wife and kids not horsepeople but looking for a fun outing and a bit of gambling....no fun there,nothing interesting between the races and drap surroundings on most racetracks....

[madelyn]

.....if you buy a 10 thousand dollar horse at keeneland, you get rounded up by the Keeneland gestapo and told you got like 30 mintues to get your POS horse off this damn property...

Precisely when did you personally experience this?

Keeneland is an auction house, and like any other auction house, rules are announced at the beginning of the session. Ownership/possession changes at the fall of the hammer. You are requested to remove your property (the horse you bought) at the conclusion of the sale.

Everywhere is the same. It is more pressing at Keeneland because the stall is very likely assigned to another horse coming in. The horse has the stall for two days, period. One day to show and one day to sell. How does this relate to Nazi Germany?

[Sylvie Hebert]

As far as auctions go I have been in predicaments no able to take out a horse on time and the sales management was very helpful and found me a place to put it,going as far as supplying bedding and hay.Evidently I suppose they were in a position to do it,considering a storm but still...And all auctions even furniture auctions request you remove your property in a certain time.In horses cases it is eb=ven more vital since a live animal has to be cared for,fed,etc