I saw a discussion about how successful race mares often don't produce very well because they "use up" their energy on the track. Watching the sales prices for these mares at Fasig Tipton and Keeneland, I was curious to see how Breeders Cup participants do after they have retired.
I just looked at the year's 2000 to 2005, and I realize most of them are still young and producing, but here's a small list:
Spain produced G1SP Dreamtheimpossible
Perfect Sting produced GSW Smart Sting
Collect the Cash produced G1SW Stately Victor
Cindy's Hero produced recent 3rd in the Breeders Cup Mile Delegation
Unbridled Elaine produced Etched
Banks Hill produced G2SW Romantica
Lailani produced Gabriel's Hill
You produced SW You and I Forever
Take Charge Lady produced G1SW Take Charge Indy
Habibti produced Eldaafer
Azeri produced Wine Princess
Gossamer and Kazza, both Group-1 producers
Owsley produced GSP Arthur's Tale
Most notable:
Tranquility Lake has produced Courageous Cat and After Market
Pico Teneriffe produced champion Marchfield
Queenie Belle produced BC Distaff winner Unrivaled Belle
Breeder's Cup fillies/mares
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karenkarenn
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Thats why they usually sell well and you find that mares who don't run or don't win usually sell for $1,000.
Good race results generally equal good producers.
Funny enough most people have realised this, well apart from P T Barnum Bloodstock.....
Is that why this year BC Classic winner came from a mare that won only one race out of seven?
You didn't say anything about the mares family you just said mares that don't run well..... I say it before and I will say it again great runners can come from anywhere
And her dam won 13 G1 races?
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bayakoa
Fort Larned ability didn't just come out of anywhere...
and http://www.pedigreequery.com/affluent2
4 times G1 winner from and unraced daughter of Bayakoa
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bayakoa
Fort Larned ability didn't just come out of anywhere...
and http://www.pedigreequery.com/affluent2
4 times G1 winner from and unraced daughter of Bayakoa
Edited by Moderator
Just for the fun of it....take a look at the progeny of the dam and sire of this NY bred GR I Whitney winner, Fio Rito. TJ
http://www.pedigreequery.com/fio+rito
http://www.pedigreequery.com/fio+rito
Just for the fun of it since this horse was born in 1975 there have been about 1 million horses born since, name one horse with similar breeding that has won a G1 since?
Oh and I see he was a sire of sires
This horse was a genetic blip.
In a business (and horse racing and breeding is just that) would you hire a 5 yr old to be your CEO or would you go for some college graduate with 10 yrs + experience?
In horse breeding that is similar to taking a $1,000 mare and hoping to breed a G1 winner, or would you get a stakes winning mare and try breeding her to a proven sire?
Its a no-brainer in business wether it be horses or anything else you stack the numbers in your favour, to do anything else is just silly.
Oh and I see he was a sire of sires
This horse was a genetic blip.
In a business (and horse racing and breeding is just that) would you hire a 5 yr old to be your CEO or would you go for some college graduate with 10 yrs + experience?
In horse breeding that is similar to taking a $1,000 mare and hoping to breed a G1 winner, or would you get a stakes winning mare and try breeding her to a proven sire?
Its a no-brainer in business wether it be horses or anything else you stack the numbers in your favour, to do anything else is just silly.
Edited by Moderator
dublino wrote:Just for the fun of it since this horse was born in 1975 there have been about 1 million horses born since, name one horse with similar breeding that has won a G1 since?
Oh and I see he was a sire of sires
This horse was a genetic blip.
In a business (and horse racing and breeding is just that) would you hire a 5 yr old to be your CEO or would you go for some college graduate with 10 yrs + experience?
In horse breeding that is similar to taking a $1,000 mare and hoping to breed a G1 winner, or would you get a stakes winning mare and try breeding her to a proven sire?
Its a no-brainer in business wether it be horses or anything else you stack the numbers in your favour, to do anything else is just silly.
Ok, i'll play.
Two off the top of my head -
John Henry
Xtra Heat
dublino wrote:Just for the fun of it since this horse was born in 1975 there have been about 1 million horses born since, name one horse with similar breeding that has won a G1 since?
Oh and I see he was a sire of sires
This horse was a genetic blip.
In a business (and horse racing and breeding is just that) would you hire a 5 yr old to be your CEO or would you go for some college graduate with 10 yrs + experience?
In horse breeding that is similar to taking a $1,000 mare and hoping to breed a G1 winner, or would you get a stakes winning mare and try breeding her to a proven sire?
Its a no-brainer in business wether it be horses or anything else you stack the numbers in your favour, to do anything else is just silly.
Hi Dub,
I'm not sure about this, but how about Bayakoa? Is her sire and dam progeny race record's missing because they didn't race in America? If so maybe someone with the resources could research the records and add the statistics to PQ. A horse like Bayakoa can't be compared to the late great Fio Rito, "genetic blip" who's by nobody outta nobody:>) TJ
dublino wrote:TJ wrote:A horse like Bayakoa can't be compared to the late great Fio Rito, "genetic blip" who's by nobody outta nobody:>) TJ
Yup thats my point Fort Larned's ability came from Bayakoa.
Fio Rito came from himself, obviously nuture over nature. (The one in the million horse)
Hi Dub,
I seem to be drawn back to your actual statement from this thread.... "Good race results generally equal good producers"...That's why I named Fio Rito. Then you changed it to the dam's, dam when Karenkarenn tested your statement by mentioning the poor race record of Fort Larned's dam.....so which one are we talking about, the dam or the dam's dam? Seems like we can always find a reason to support what we say. Staying with your actual statement...."good race results generally equal good producers" (PT Barnum included) what about Wilko, Cosing Argument, Wise Dan and of course Fort Larned, ? None of their dams had good race results. Bayakoa herself only produced a one race winner in her abbreviated carrer as a broodmare....so I don't see how she proves your point, actually she disproves your original statement....great racemare that she was...she was not a good producer. TJ
dublino wrote:TJ if you notice something about G1 winning mares that produced little or no winners, their daughters usually produce good winners.
My point is usually if you don't have at least a stakes winner in the first 3 dams you are up the creek.
Hi Dub,
I certainly won't disagree with your latest statement and yes I have long noticed this...but I still disagree with your original statement. I've seen good horse come from other than the cream of the crop. If you aren't fortunate enough to have superior bloodlines to work with (which most are not)...you have to make do with what you have and many small breeder's have accomplished this and done very well. So many super good mares like Bayakoa are either to potent or, in her case high strung...they need a buffer between them to do their best work:>) Same applies to great colts, like Secretariat's mares becoming good producers. It was a shame Bayakoa didn't live long enough to possibly have one of her own. I saw that mare in the flesh...I was there when my friend ran against her with Go For Wand. That was a very sad BC day filled with more than one tragedy...but you could hear a pin drop at Belmont Park when that horror unfolded before all to see in the BC Lady's Classic (then the BC Distaff). TJ