Pletcher has FIVE horses pointing towards the Belmont. Of the five, 3 of them are far more accomplished than this horse, and yet, he seems to be getting all the press (except maybe the filly trying to make history).
Revolutionary, in my mind, is a far more talented horse, and has done far more than Palace Malice.
Overanalyze, same thing. I've seen barely a word on him.
From what I can see from Palace Malice, he's green, and Pletcher really screwed it up for the Derby by putting the blinkers on...not that I thought this horse was going to win the Derby anyway. He's won a MSW. The best race he ran was on polytrack to a horse that also didn't do well in the Derby. I just don't think he's as good as some of these others.
Why is he getting so much press?
Palace Malice
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
Look at the advert for Curlin
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-regi ... 542/curlin
Sad, they are trying to say he's a sire of Stakes horses.
Whoever wrote that has some sense of humour.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-regi ... 542/curlin
Sad, they are trying to say he's a sire of Stakes horses.
Whoever wrote that has some sense of humour.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
I do feel compelled to observe that at the same point in their careers, as early-ish 3yos, Smart Strike son English Channel was seen as a flop to run away from very fast. By the end of that year, he had 9 individual stakes winners including a Queen's Plate winner.
It's not looking good for Curlin but I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet.
It's not looking good for Curlin but I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet.
I would love to see the vet bills for English Channel and compare them to the vet bills of Curlin and Big Brown.
English Channel is ok but not for a $25,000 sire.
He still hasn't even broke even on his AEI
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-regi ... ree=128645
Here's the three of them compared and two are duds English Channel has a chance but at $25,000 he needs to up his game.
English Channel is ok but not for a $25,000 sire.
He still hasn't even broke even on his AEI
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-regi ... ree=128645
Here's the three of them compared and two are duds English Channel has a chance but at $25,000 he needs to up his game.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
dublino wrote:I would love to see the vet bills for English Channel and compare them to the vet bills of Curlin and Big Brown.
English Channel is ok but not for a $25,000 sire.
He still hasn't even broke even on his AEI
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-regi ... ree=128645
Here's the three of them compared and two are duds English Channel has a chance but at $25,000 he needs to up his game.
English Channel's first foals are 4 years old. He was at his best as a 4 and 5 year old. That means he has exactly ONE crop at an age where, if they took after their sire, they will be running up to that level. His 2yos probably haven't even started yet and his 3yos are only just getting going. That first crop that is just now 4yos has 9 1/2% stakes winners in it. As far as his AEI not meeting his CI, wasn't it just you the other day that said hear hear to something I said about not taking statistics out of context? He's one good stakes win from them being equal. He's his 3yos getting out of the block from meeting his CI.
He's sitting higher on the national earnings table right now than Bernardini, Dynaformer, Arch, Quiet American, Include, Flower Alley, and Mineshaft.
You can't treat a horse whose get are going to be later-maturing like one who was an early 2yo and expected to produce the same.
Where I will agree with you that he's not good value for $25k are his sales figures. But if he keeps it up with this level of production, he'll earn himself that slot in with the likes of Broken Vow and Tale of the Cat, and honestly that's not a bad place to be.
I like English Channel just not the price.
For me he is a $15,000 sire.
I like his profile and hopefully he will pass this on to his own progeny, horse who develop over time and stick around and not run 3 times at two and retire.
Horses like English Channel are good for the breed he just needs to hit a big dirt running male and he will be set. (although his fee might then double)
I think he is/will be a better sire than Curlin & Big Brown.
And the more America cleans up the sport of racing horses like English Channel will get more of a chance.
For me he is a $15,000 sire.
I like his profile and hopefully he will pass this on to his own progeny, horse who develop over time and stick around and not run 3 times at two and retire.
Horses like English Channel are good for the breed he just needs to hit a big dirt running male and he will be set. (although his fee might then double)
I think he is/will be a better sire than Curlin & Big Brown.
And the more America cleans up the sport of racing horses like English Channel will get more of a chance.
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ct2346 wrote:Sorry. English Channel's numbers are very comparable to Exclusive Quality down in FL. You can get to him for $2500. EC needs to come way down. The guess is that his quality of mares has/will decline.
English Channel and Exclusive Quality are miles apart.
Cannot compare these two.
English Channel for me is slightly overpriced to be a great deal.
He is an ok option at $25,000 @ $15,000 he's a steal.
The quality of his mares can only increase with the figures he is putting out there.
ct2346 wrote:Curlin still has a shot. His offspring show well, fairly well anyway at the sales.
Funny that horses run at the racetrack and not in sales rings.
Plenty of stallions sell well and their progeny don't run a lick.
The only shot Curlin has is down a double barrel.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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dublino wrote:I like English Channel just not the price.
For me he is a $15,000 sire.
I like his profile and hopefully he will pass this on to his own progeny, horse who develop over time and stick around and not run 3 times at two and retire.
Fair enough.
On a side note, the Virginia Derby has been really good in putting out useful to excellent stallions.
Kitten's Joy is a top horse, English Channel is off to a reasonable start and should be a useful sire. Artie Schiller has settled into a career as a reasonably-priced ham and eggs sire of winners (and they like him in Aussie). Circular Quay is getting some winners down in Florida. Of the unproven ones, Silver Tree is well-bred and well-performed at a bargain price, Gio Ponti a three-time champion whose sire actually hasn't done too badly as a sire of useful racehorse sires (Lion Heart especially), Court Vision exceptionally well-bred and full brother to upstart sire Kipling.
kimberley mine wrote:Kitten's Joy is a top horse, English Channel is off to a reasonable start and should be a useful sire. Artie Schiller has settled into a career as a reasonably-priced ham and eggs sire of winners (and they like him in Aussie).
Kipling
Kittens Joy really good sire, but overpriced a tad also - most of his good horses have been owner bred. ( just checked his fee is $50,000 - was this not $70,000 at the start of this season? hmm strange)
@ $50K he is good - a proven sire and top 20 & then top 10 last two years currently number 7 - can't argue about $50k.
I like Artie Schiller again just needs a high profile winner and might take off with better support.
Your just winding me up by even mentioning Kipling.
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