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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:21 pm 
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http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... -on-chrome


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:20 pm 
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These guys have no idea what they're doing.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:41 pm 
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To the contrary, i think that they have made a very thought-over decision. You may not agree with them, but that doesn't make their decision uninformed or unacceptable.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:53 pm 
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Georgerz wrote:
To the contrary, i think that they have made a very thought-over decision. You may not agree with them, but that doesn't make their decision uninformed or unacceptable.


At the least, they're going about this intelligently by putting the colt with an English trainer familiar with local conditions and giving him time to acclimate. Whether Chrome's good enough to handle the competition he's likely to see at Royal Ascot can be questioned, but he'll get a fair opportunity to show what he has.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:46 pm 
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One may have to ask what is the targeted objective of running him
in such a varied ensemble of races, countries and
circumstances without having yet achieved a paradigmatic victory.
Is it meritorious enough for his already achieved status to put himself
on the line like that? No one would like to witness a poor performance
from him in another country, especially when there seems to be
different public opinions echoing from his camp.

There is a story about a fisherman and a golden fish...

History speaks: it is of little importance to have known if Native Dancer
would have won any important race at Royal Ascot back during his heydays,
thanks he didn't attempted that arduous and risky endeavor.

We all sincerely wish California Chrome all the Best!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:31 am 
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Why all the fuss? Euro horses run at Royal Ascot and then compete in the breeders cup classic.

Think Giants Causeway and Declaration of War.

Why is it OK for us to travel to your backyard and try and to compete but when you guys are asked to do it you immediately say your at a disadvantage???

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:50 am 
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Hi Dublino -

I am not sure that the consensus is that he is at a disadvantage because he is an American horse, Wesley Ward has proven that NOT to be the case. The question in my mind is, "is he truly good enough?"

Chrome did not beat much in his turf start, in my opinion he was #4 in his own crop (behind Shared Belief, Tonalist & Bayern), and I can not remember any horse that ran 2 turns in Dubai returning to his previous form.

Big challenge for Chrome, very sporting of his owners as it is not the safe play in regards to future stud value, and it will add international excitement to Royal Ascot - should be fun to watch.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:06 am 
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All horses are creatures of habit. They sometimes take a while to respond to us, as was the case with CC early in his career. His groom was a calming influence over this horse and they have been together all his racing career. Now they will be apart and CC will have a new family to work with...sometimes it takes a while to build a similar relationship between man and beast, that had been built with the Sherman's and his crew. Hopefully this new relationship building won't interfere with CC's lessons in the Guest yard?
The fuss about the decision of CC's owner is when Euro horses come to America to race, they come with their entire team in tact. The people who understand the horses idiosyncrasies, what makes that horse tick, his groom, exercise rider etc. No one would send a horse into a new stable and expect the new conditioner to know what the horse is all about immediately....it takes time. California Chrome had a hard time returning to his former fitness level after his break following the Belmont Stakes. Sherman knew CC wasn't ready when he raced in PA and again when he raced against Shared Belief...but that race tightened him up for Dubai....well that race and two strong workouts. He was near the top of his game in Dubai and he ran well, but the race had to take a toll on him between the strong effort and the traveling. Art Sherman was prepared to take him home and freshen him up a bit. Then after the race, CC's owner (the one who stayed home and didn't bother to come over to see the race) tells him he won't be going home and instead will stay here with a new trainer and race two more times under new management. All this after CC was soundly beaten by a horse of less then stellar ability. Chrome himself hasn't won a race on the dirt in 10 1/2 months. So now his owner thinks he is ready to move forward and try Euro's best over a turf course he's never seen the likes of? He will most likely end up running against SOLOW, who in my opinion, put on the single best performance of any horse in the Dubai World Cup Festival. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm hoping CC settles in well with his new family and adjusts to his new handler's, environment, training regime and will learn his lessons quickly. TJ


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:54 am 
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The lack of warning to the trainer suggests that this wasn't thought through. Sending the horse over to England to train might seem to be a good idea but the training regimes at Newmarket are vastly different, it may take him a very long time to acclimate. The racing turf surfaces also very different than the one surface he raced over here (it rains a lot in England, for example).

In addition, there's little indication from the one turf race against indifferent company that California Chrome is a major turf talent. He also stands a good chance of going to England fatigued, as many horses are after the Dubai World Cup.

Wesley Ward has been successful in England but he spent quite a bit of time learning the ropes before that success came his way. I don't see a lot of American trainers following in his footsteps either. The owners of California Chrome have no experience in English turf racing, to get a true sense of what the differences are.

With all of these factors stacked up against him, I think the chances of California Chrome winning in England are small. Without more wins, his luster as a stallion (which with humble beginnings wasn't that great to begin with) and hence his value wane.

Hence, I am sticking to my earlier statement - they don't know what they are doing.

There's sporting and there's silly. Only time will tell which it is here, but I know what I think.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:54 am 
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Wait who is training the horse. He didn't say the trainers name it was just "We are training where Frankel trained at."
K


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:20 am 
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Hi Karen,
Rae Guest will be the trainer while in England.....Sherman's son Alan is supposed to go back to England and check on things, but that remains to be seen. The horse may run in Art Sherman's name when he races....but that may change at the whim of the owner? Very strange, they met Guest's owner's son (Robbie Mills) in California when he was galloping horses for Sherman a few years back. He now gallops for Rae Guest in England. The owners got to talking again with Robbie when they met him in Dubai, as he was galloping Mirza for Guest in preparation for the Dubai Al Quoz Sprint. This (chance??) reunion is what set the stage and the switch was made, without Art Sherman's knowledge. I've seen this happen so many times in this business, but not usually with horses who are as accomplished as CC. Most owners would believe in their trainers better judgement, since Sherman has done a wonderful job with the horse and has been able to keep that crooked legged sucker sound and returning to the races for 3 seasons. TJ


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Regarding the latest release from Martin: http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com/hoofprints.

You've got some very good points regarding the challenges Chrome faces in racing at Ascot, TJ, but I don't know why Chrome should be singled out as particularly crooked-legged. He does turn out noticeably on his right fore and is a bit offset in that knee but it doesn't seem to affect his action much. Plenty of good horses have been no more correct and some mighty good runners have had more serious faults.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:38 am 
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Chrome is not Frankel. HELLO!!!!
Had to laugh at the comment "crooked legged sucker".
I can't imagine too many people can be interested in breeding to him based on his pedigree, and those legs. Yes, he is a nice racehorse, but I think he needs to come back to the USA and win a race on the dirt again. Sherman is the one that got that horse to where he is.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:12 am 
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Mahubah wrote:
Regarding the latest release from Martin: http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com/hoofprints.

You've got some very good points regarding the challenges Chrome faces in racing at Ascot, TJ, but I don't know why Chrome should be singled out as particularly crooked-legged. He does turn out noticeably on his right fore and is a bit offset in that knee but it doesn't seem to affect his action much. Plenty of good horses have been no more correct and some mighty good runners have had more serious faults.

Hi Mahubah,
You are correct and I may have been a little harsh....but "crooked Legged sucker" has been used for years around the racetrack and it just spilled out of this dinosaurs mouth. Many times it was meant to be as endearing on the backstretch as it may sound to be derogatory to others off the backstretch:>) Yet his flaws are all the more reason why this move is questionable. Horses that move the way he does, when he jogs prior to his gallops and walks the way he does, have their own way of going that could be more stressful then others not having this disadvantage. Their weight isn't always distributed as it should be and could lead to injury. His gait has been visibly off and mentioned by many knowledgeable horseman and clocker's such as Mike Welsh, who have seen him warming up. The point is, that Sherman has done a wonderful job with this horse under the circumstances. I am well aware of the ailments of many of these great athletes, they adapt just as we humans do to our flaws.
Going into a new barn, a new trainer might decide to do something about the way he moves, altering his gait to be more efficient....through shoeing or possibly injection? That many times leads to disaster. Sherman knows his horse and CC's ability to cope with his conformational flaws.....that is because CC is smart, extremely fast, athletic and most importantly light on his "hoofs" or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Other's who aren't, many times won't last through the rigors of training. CC's patient and careful handling by Sherman has been a major reason why this horse got as far as he has and returned for 3 seasons. It isn't easy to keep such horses returning season after season, especially at the level he is competing. I hope that CC and his new connections will be working in concert with the knowledge Sherman has to offer on what makes CC tick. If they do CC will most likely return again and run well. Yet my strongest fear is due to his conformational flaws, will California Chrome be able to handle the long, deep, many times soft and undulating surfaces of the various Euro turf tracks with the same dexterity he has over the dirt and a manicured American turf course? It is for this reason I question the move, more then anything else. I'm sure it is the same reason why Sherman also questions it....he is a true horseman concerned for CC's welfare. TJ


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:21 am 
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Wow TJ not like you.....

If chrome was not by lucky pulpit but his sire or by another of his sons say Tapit he would be the most exciting stallion prospect in America.

As I said before racing is what makes a pedigree, results on the racetrack.
People made a play for chrome before last years Derby trying to buy him for what they thought he was worth thinking that they were dealing with someone they could buy easily i.e. new dumb owners to the game.

This didn't happen and then since then Chrome hasn't got the pedigree and now he is the only horse in America with a crooked leg.

Look what coolmore did with Verrazano running him in Europe on the turf and Declaration of War not standing him in America straight after his classic run.

More experienced horsemen are doing dumber things with their horses and we have to remember they are THEIR horses.

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