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 Post subject: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:19 pm 
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If they will ever win a Derby crossing the pond, this looks like the one. A bit of poetry in motion. This work without the benefit of shoes as is De Kock's method of training...he slaps a set of shoes on for race day only. Mubtaahij is a one horse international cast, owned by an Arab sheikh, trained by a South African, ridden by a Belgian and Mub himself is an Irish Bred:>) Watch his work. TJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TO3iXd1mSA


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:19 am 
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Ah those Irish breds..... you can't beat us :D

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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:18 am 
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If God had not invented Whiskey the Irish would have taken over the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:39 pm 
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So glad you posted that. It looked like such an easy gallop, if you didn't know it was a work. How easy he did it. He's my derby pick, and I'm going Materiality second. How horses like American P and Dortmund could not be my favorites with what they have shown and done may come back to bite, but I like Mubtaahij's chances a lot. Materiality, well...he's sort of a sentimental second choice. I like Afleet Alex, and am just thrilled with the big horses he is getting these days.

The international angle you pointed out TJ is priceless. What a cast of characters. But this horse is really quality and he should definitely get the distance. I am looking forward to seeing a scary relentless drive from him in the stretch.

Not that we aren't all saying it, but this group of horses is off-the-charts good unless they have all peaked and can't move up from here. I kind of doubt that.


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Mac wrote:
So glad you posted that. It looked like such an easy gallop, if you didn't know it was a work. How easy he did it. He's my derby pick, and I'm going Materiality second. How horses like American P and Dortmund could not be my favorites with what they have shown and done may come back to bite, but I like Mubtaahij's chances a lot. Materiality, well...he's sort of a sentimental second choice. I like Afleet Alex, and am just thrilled with the big horses he is getting these days.

The international angle you pointed out TJ is priceless. What a cast of characters. But this horse is really quality and he should definitely get the distance. I am looking forward to seeing a scary relentless drive from him in the stretch.

Not that we aren't all saying it, but this group of horses is off-the-charts good unless they have all peaked and can't move up from here. I kind of doubt that.


I like Afleet Alex too, and I think Materiality could really be something. There are so many good ones this year, I almost wish there wasn't a Kentucky Derby that might tarnish the records of some. Ok, that sounded weird.


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:03 pm 
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He's definitely a top contender and that his trainer chooses to run him without the benefit of Lasix makes his story all the more intriguing. Imagine the stir it would create in certain circles if he should win whilst racing drug free.

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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:03 am 
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Patuxet wrote:
He's definitely a top contender and that his trainer chooses to run him without the benefit of Lasix makes his story all the more intriguing. Imagine the stir it would create in certain circles if he should win whilst racing drug free.

Hi Patuxet,
It really shouldn't create much of a stir. This isn't the first time he's raced in the States without lasix, he brought Horse Chestnut, Archipenko and Eagle Mountain here sans lasix. Mike de Kock, like almost all top trainers on either side of the pond, won't fix what isn't broken. Don't forget Lukas won the Derby with Grindstone who never used lasix. Consistency between winning races is a key factor, be it with equipment, feed, drugs, training, environment, riders etc. He's done the best he could to duplicate the way he kept Mubtaahij when stabled overseas. Changing to lasix now could spell disaster for a horse who never used it before. Although you see horses listed as FTL (first time lasix) in past performances as if it was a guaranteed winner....more horses will be beaten the first time they run with it, as many get listless after first administration. In most instances due to administering a full dose of the permissive amount. Many will lower the dosage considerably when that happens and they will usually perform much better next out. For de Kock to give his horse Lasix now wouldn't make any sense. On the negative side, Mubtaahij was prone to respiratory problems as a young horse prompting his trainer to keep him outdoors more then inside a stall. An environmental factor, which can contribute to EIPH. I know he was looking to duplicate this here in the States, but it's the one thing I haven't heard concerning Mub's accommodations here in the States. Another negative change was in his feed (and it actually is de Kock's feed used oversees and marketed by him http://www.mikedekockracing.com/wp/2986 ... _a3_lo.pdf ). The USDA would not allow his feed to be shipped into this country because it wasn't approved by them. De Kock seems to be satisfied with the feed substitute he's using here and Mubtaahij' recent work seemed to indicate no lack of energy. But these two things can worry a trainer to drink....minor as it may seem, small changes could cause big changes on race day. Mubtaahij is expected to work back over the weekend. TJ


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:21 am 
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Is this horse scary good or is he just better than the horses that he is racing against? His times are NOT spectacular in his victories......are their tracks that much different? All the races that I've seen, he HAS had a very good trip and are very similar. He lurks in 3rd or 4th and never more than 2 or 3 wide and then surges down the stretch and wins by a LOT. His acceleration in the UAE Derby with about half a furlong from the finish was unlike any other I have ever seen....winning by 8 or so.


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:59 am 
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jagger wrote:
Is this horse scary good or is he just better than the horses that he is racing against? His times are NOT spectacular in his victories......are their tracks that much different? All the races that I've seen, he HAS had a very good trip and are very similar. He lurks in 3rd or 4th and never more than 2 or 3 wide and then surges down the stretch and wins by a LOT. His acceleration in the UAE Derby with about half a furlong from the finish was unlike any other I have ever seen....winning by 8 or so.

Hi jagger,
I guess that remains to be seen since we have a few scary good looking horses in this Derby field. What gives this horse extra points is his trainer Mike de Kock. He isn't one to spin his wheels crossing the Atlantic, but when he does he expects to be in the thick of it. Even de Kock mentioned that the UAE Derby fell into his hands because of the speed dual in front of him, yet he was perfectly positioned to take advantage of that. You have to be a good horse to be in the right place at the right time and good horses make good trips common place (look at Dortmund, American Pharoah, Carpe Diem, Materiality and International Star with spotless records this year). De Kock jokingly said he thought he picked the worst year ever to come over with all the talent in this years Derby:>) So it's gonna be a "Battle Royal" and every one in it knows that....this Derby is setting up to be one of the best ever, I hope it doesn't disappoint us with to many lackluster performances from top contenders. TJ


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:03 am 
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TJ wrote: “ Don't forget Lukas won the Derby with Grindstone who never used lasix. “

Thanks, TJ, for your detailed summation. I'm not sure I ever knew that Grindstone never used lasix. I'm surprised that fact hasn't come up more during the recent “lasix wars” wherein adamant advocates declare that all horses bleed and need lasix. I thought a lasix-free Derby winner would blow a hole in that argument and promote the cause for US alignment with international racing's drug use standards. Apparently Grindstone has had no impact on that argument. I wonder if a lasix-free Triple Crown winner would?

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Last edited by Patuxet on Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:28 am 
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Yea, TJ......and that's what's puzzling....if that was a speed duel, it wasn't much of one. I think I hear 26 flat for the first 400 meters and 1:58.35 for the 9 1/2 furlongs isn't very good at all and the announcer said he wasn't that far off the track record, held by an older horse. This would equate to about a 2:05 Ky Derby.


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:31 am 
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Patuxet wrote:
TJ wrote: “ Don't forget Lukas won the Derby with Grindstone who never used lasix. “

Thanks, TJ, for your detailed summation. I'm not sure I ever knew that Grindstone never used lasix. I'm surprised that fact hasn't come up more during the recent “lasix wars” wherein adamant advocates declare that all horses bleed and need lasix. I thought a lasix-free Derby winner would blow a hole in that argument and promote the cause for US alignment with international racing's drug use standards. Apparently Grindstone has had no impact on that argument. I wonder if a lasix-free Triple Crown winner would?

Hi Patuxet,
I find no comparison between here and International racing when training horses. If Euro trainers came here without the benefit of their own yard to train in, they might very well find more of their horses suffering from EIPH. The training facilities and environment are so different. The fact De Kock would keep Mubtaahij outdoors, because he was prone to respiratory problems, is probably the reason why he stayed healthy and has never bled. Being in that small stall sucking in wood shaving or dust from straw or every-time they drop their head is a major cause of EIPH in America.
The lasix argument is another story and there are good points on both sides. Horsemen/women that have seen bad bleeders, before lasix was permitted, know they never want to see that happen to any of their horses again. Since lasix, we seldom see horses coming back from a race gushing blood from their nostrils. This is the argument that has kept lasix from being eliminated. It was an upsetting sight to see, especially with the fans seeing it first hand. If Mubtaahij does win, we certainly will hear about it, since the anti lasix groups are more active in these days, especially at the top. TJ


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 Post subject: Re: Mubtaahij
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:35 am 
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jagger wrote:
Yea, TJ......and that's what's puzzling....if that was a speed duel, it wasn't much of one. I think I hear 26 flat for the first 400 meters and 1:58.35 for the 9 1/2 furlongs isn't very good at all and the announcer said he wasn't that far off the track record, held by an older horse. This would equate to about a 2:05 Ky Derby.

Hi jagger,
Just keep in mind Mubtaahij' trainer knows the variables in time between here and there. His horses always perform well when he brings one here. I hope his horse does well once again. He is a deserving horseman and if he pulls this off against this Derby field, the sky's the limit thereafter:>) TJ


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