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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:02 am 
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Not only is Arrogate 3yo of the year, but he is also Horse of the Year. It will be close, mainly because of the emotion around long running Chrome, but I believe most turf writers recognize the greatness of Arrogate. He is, quite simply, the best 3yo I have ever seen...and I saw Damascus...and all that followed.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:18 pm 
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I have a hard time seeing him win HOY over Chrome. Would you have voted Blame over Zenyatta in '10? Curious.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:17 pm 
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No. But different circumstances. Zenyatta was undefeated going into that race. Chrome has lots of losses. albeit none this year. Blame was clobbered by Haynesfield immediately prior - although Haynesfield freaked on that day. Arrogate crushed his division one race prior in the most impressive Travers ever run.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:17 am 
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[quote="ct2346"]No. But different circumstances. Zenyatta was [i]undefeated[/i] going into that race. Chrome has lots of losses. albeit none this year. Blame was clobbered by Haynesfield immediately prior - although Haynesfield freaked on that day. Arrogate crushed his division one race prior in the most impressive Travers ever run.[/quote]

We're talking 2016. So anything Chrome did before that, doesn't count, right? His losses in 2015, 2014, even 2013, don't factor here.
You know that, right?
And if we're talking losses, Arrogate is not undefeated.
Body of work. 2016. Chrome has a better body of work. He dueled it out the WHOLE year.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:16 am 
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The BC was originally conceived to settle arguments over Eclipse awards. That never really came to pass since in many cases it has confused the issue:>) This year is no different...yet we do have a few locks in the voting, that being Songbird being Champion 3YO Filly, Arrogate Champion 3YO Male Horse, California Chrome Champion Older Dirt Male Horse, Beholder Champion Older Dirt Female Horse and Defrong Champion Sprint Horse. That leaves the other awards up in the air especially Horse of The Year. I've always thought the Classic should be a determining factor but that hasn't really been the case...especially this year because Arrogate was sidelined with injuries earlier in the year. We can look at this in two ways...California Chrome was sound and winning all year long and has accomplished so much more than Arrogate. On the other hand if California Chrome had such an edge over the late developing Arrogate, why did this 3YO beat him over a track both know so well. If you look at who Chrome beat this season in GR I events, Dortmund, Beholder and Hoppertunity were his toughest rivals. Chrome won 3 GR I races this year and Arrogate won 2 GR I's....so that is pretty amazing considering Arrogate crammed it all into his last two starts while exiting Allowance races and playing catch up. I think the voters will have a tough time deciding this one....my preference would be Arrogate because he must be a super horse to handle Chrome with his inexperience and light resume...but there is a lot of love for Chrome which will have a big impact on the voting.
That being said the good news is:>).......
I thought Chrome was going to retire to Taylor Made at the end of this year, but he has one more dance come January 28th at Gulfstream Park, The inaugural running of the 12 Million Dollar Pegasus at the distance of 1 1/8th miles. TJ


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:20 pm 
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Frankly, I'm not going to argue with people whichever way they go. If they vote for Arrogate, they're voting for a colt who put two freakish races back to back (a rare feat) and proved best in the biggest showcase of the year. If they vote for Chrome, they're voting for a horse who competed at the highest level all year in company with no restrictions for age or sex, ducked no one, was marvelously consistent over the course of the year and built the best body of work throughout the course of the year. I can respect either position. My own vote would go to Chrome based on performance throughout the year, but I'm not going to be heartbroken if Arrogate gets it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:40 pm 
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I know he can't win over Arrogate, but Gun Runner sure is a gritty little sonofagun. Wasn't letting any of them past him in the Clark. I like this colt a lot, he shows up every time.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Cree wrote:
I know he can't win over Arrogate, but Gun Runner sure is a gritty little sonofagun. Wasn't letting any of them past him in the Clark. I like this colt a lot, he shows up every time.

Hi Cree,
Certainly agree with you, he's a tough little horse and whipped some decent older horses today. Seems like he's getting better as he's getting older. That was a good prep if they were to consider the Pegasus at GP for him...I'm sure some of the "spot owners" who don't have a horse for the race, will look to court Gun Runner after this win. Shaman Ghost, who he whipped today has been pointing for the Pegasus and Stronach all ready owns a spot in the $12 Million Dollar Pegasus. The distance makes this race a more open affair, as Gun Runner seems to really like the 1 1/8th miles which today's Clark as well as the Pegasus will be run. Arrogate seems to be a superior 1 1/4 mile horse, so this distance could make a difference when and if California Chrome, Arrogate and Gun Runner meet each other at the distance of 1 1/8th miles....it will be an important factor. Gulfstream Park also has a pretty strong post position bias going 1 1/8th miles at GP...only a top quality horse can win at that particular distance breaking from a far outside post. Nothing is certain at this point concerning the Pegasus World Cup field (other than California Chrome), but there's a strong possibility Highland Reel (whose owners also own a spot in the gate), who beat Flintshire and Found in the BC Turf could also be heading to the Pegasus. Starting to look like the first running of the Pegasus World Cup could be a homerun:>) TJ
Update: another late developing 3YO, Connect won the GR I Cigar Mile 11/27 and previously beat Gun Runner in the PA Derby, will likely head to the Pegasus World Cup.


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