Storm Flag Flying

[Nancy T]

Is she still in training or has she been retired??

[mumtaz]

I believe she retired after the BC last year. I want to say she was booked to A.P. Indy, but I can't remember for sure.

[Tairaterces]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/search ... rdNo=50401

T

[kimberley mine]

Without intending to bash either Storm Cat or AP Indy....

I have to wonder why she is going to Indy. Her dam had no success with him. My Flag's half sister Pennant Champion went to him, for an allowance horse. Personal Ensign went to him, and the result was a filly that won once in six tries. The AP Indy (and sons) over Storm Cat cross, despite numerous tries with some very good mares, has only produced a very few good horses, only two of which (Sky Mesa and Jump Start) are G1 or G2 winners.

This cross just doesn't seem to work well with the family, and the API over SC doesn't seem to work as well as hoped. So why keep trying?

[Mahubah]

If it weren't for the fact that she's a Phipps homebred and will doubtless have her offspring retained for racing, I would have a three-word answer: Commercial sales prospect. Plenty of suckers to go for that ped without looking close enough to realize that the cross has not done all that well.

[louis finochio]

Thats the reason Bob Baffert doesnt subscribe to Werks AAA Nicks. as Bob would rather pick out his own individuals by his using his own methods.

When BB came over to train TB from the QH, he used to purchase Werks Nicks and had to learn the hard way.

Every time I talk to BB, I ask him how his 1000.00 AAA nicks are doing.
LOL.

[llbean]

The AP Indy (and sons) over Storm Cat cross, despite numerous tries with some very good mares, has only produced a very few good horses, only two of which (Sky Mesa and Jump Start) are G1 or G2 winners.

Hi Kimberley,

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the utter failure of this particular female line (which not incidently needs more speed and already has plenty of stamina) with AP Indy is a very good reason for avoiding him with My Flag. As George Smith (or somebody) says, you have to look as intently at what hasn't worked as at what has: A Pedigree may justly be likened to a Minefield...

But when you said that "Only" two of the horses crossing AP Indy and Storm Cat are GI or G2 Winners, you lost me...

How many GI or G2 Winners did these supposed "Good mares" produce to the cover of stallions not providing the Storm Cat/AP Indy cross? (I can't think of any...)

Sky Mesa is the best under his dam and Jump Start is the best under his dam; also, both were 2YO Graded Stakes Winners Who Showed Some Real Talent and both were Weighted on the Experimental Free Handicap.

Anyway, I took a look through the PQs List of horses combining both and I didn't recognize a single dam as a Graded Stakes Producer save Carees and Steady Cat (and who wot they the dams of?).

I think the PQ database has 38 of racing age with the cross and of those 2 are GSW. That comes to a impressive 5.2% GSW even though a lot of them were born in 2002 and haven't raced much (if at all) as 3YOs yet.

Of those on the list 18 are by AP Indy and 1 (Jump Start) is a GSW. That comes to 5.5% GSW and even though AP Indy's General Rate of GSW is higher (6.4%), the AP Indy/Storm Cat horses are selected for the trait of being born more recently, and many of them just turned 4 and several just turned 3 (even a Champion like Mineshaft didn't win a GSW till four, so this is a major disadvantage to the stats of the AP Indy / Storm Cat cross).

Perhaps the percentage of SW is lower, but SW mean very little compared to Graded Stakes Winners.

The issue with this cross seems to more a matter of soundness problems(which might explain the semi-low number of SW) and less a question of the cross not being a good one.

-llbean

[kimberley mine]

LLbean, I stand corrected.

I agree with you on the probable soundness issues.

[Sysonby]

The whole Storm Cat to A P Indy nick has been underwhelming considering the individuals involved. However, conclusions are probably premature at this point. In the absense of any personal knowledge or convictions, I also would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. Someone who knows this mare and this family far better than I do, decided on A P Indy for certain unexpressed reasons and the Phipps are gambling on their expertise to the tune of $300,000. Who am I to say that they are wrong?

[freddymo]

As a Phipp's fan/loyalist, I was destroyed when I heard she was booked to AP INDY. So far, Indy has been a huge FLOP with all of there mares. Daydreaming a nice grade 2 winner who looks like she can improve and might be grade 1 material is the best to date. Leading the Parade indy/my flag is the plodder of the decade, unlike SFF(at 2). My question is why do the Phipp's breeding program avoid all GONE WEST blood? To me that is the major issue. Look at there top hens, they currently use SC, Rahy,Forest Wildcat, Monarchos, Mambo, Indy(yuck),Pulpit(better then indy). I understand the Claiborne relationship and even agree that Pulpit and Monarchos are worthy of strong consideration. But given the lack of any sucess with INDY WHY SFF 1ST FOAL IS AN INDY IS BEYOND ME? I would sell the colt let him bring 5plus mil and watch it toil in nwx2 at Belmont...A filly I would keep race and breed maybe to Seeking would have to see if that was a bit too much Mr.P.

[jim10366]

For what it is worth they are not paying 300k for A.P indy, nothing close to that. I recall reading they had some special agreement with Farish for their best mares.