Anyone had this experience?

[Jenny]

I did not know where to post this. Has anyone ever had their mare checked Not in foal at 21- 23 days and in fact they were? I have a really nice mare, in fact my favorite mare. Who was checked not in foal. 2 months ago and now is absolutely huge! hanging low, you know the whole thing. My vet was out for something else today. I said to him lets take a walk into the broodmare paddock. he had a funny look on his face but agreed. I said remember this mare? Ya! he said she was empty. He took one look and said. She looks full now!! How is that possible? He is going to check her again next week when he has time. I don't want to get my hopes up. But has this happened to anyone??

[Roguelet]

Yep. We have a mare who checked not in foal at the end of the 2004 breeding season; it was late so we figured we'd start early the following year, so we put her under lights that Winter. She is an old mare who's had a lot of foals, so she always has that swaybacked, full bellied look whether she's pregnant or not, so in her case, appearance wasn't helpful. Yeah, she looked pregnant, but she ALWAYS looks pregnant! And, she's been known to lactate when she's not in foal, too... so even her udder is not a good indication of her status.

We tried and tried, but she would not tease in. We actually thought maybe her age was catching up to her and she wasn't going to cycle. We turned her out with our stallion for about a week or so. She was NOT in heat during this time; we had her in there as a companion mare for him. One of our other mares was confirmed in foal and put in with him, and she came back out. Still, she wouldn't tease in.

When the vet came out to palp another mare, I asked her to palp this one too, let me know if she was cycling at all, etc. She got this funny look on her face and asked if the mare had been exposed to our stallion. I said yes, a couple of weeks before, but I was sure she wasn't in heat at that time. She asked if she'd been exposed to him before that, like last year? I just looked at her for a minute trying to comprehend what she was getting at, and she informed me that she was "petting a foal... not a fetus; a FOAL."

So, a short time later she foaled and we named that filly (out of Indecent Proposal and by Indy Mood) "Inysent Surprise."

Edited to add: I think what happened is that this mare has a cyst that is about the size of an 18 day pregnancy... I think the vet found what he THOUGHT was that cyst, only in this case it was really a pregnancy. Or the pregnancy was hiding behind the cyst, or something...

[cewright]

I had a similar experience several years ago. We tried to rebreed our TB mare Easy Greasy (barn name "Bailey") after her first foal. The vet checked her at about 14 days and reported no signs of pregnancy. Since it was late in the season we elected to leave her open until next year. That fall, we took Bailey to the vet for a repro exam and culture to prepare for an early breeding the following spring. The vet started to palpate the mare and asked quizzically "Are you sure this mare isn't pregnant?" I answered that I had no idea but she had been quite sure when she checked her last!

I learned later the insemination, this was a QH stallion, was on a double follicle. We surmise the second one ovulated and was fertilized, throwing off the timing of the initial examination.

We named the filly Captive Surprise.

[madelyn]

It happens a lot. So we use other signs as well.. ie: tight uterus or progesterone level. The timing of ovulaton can play havoc.. you are SUPPOSED to ultrasound 14 days after ovulation. But in Rocking Trick's case, his sperm must live more than 4 days because of the size of some of the "possible" pregnancies (ie: a possible 11 day fetus 16 days after the last cover). So now I don't leave it to chance, I pull blood and run progesterone about 17+ days.

Last year I had an immaculate conception filly... in a mare that was essentially given to me, sworn to be open. The farm where she was boarded even said they never sent her to the stallion.

A LOT rests on the skill of your vet. We had one really terrible gal out here once that was cheerful and way too fast with the ultrasound.. and said nothing was in foal when I saw the darned fetus on the screen myself.

[Jenny]

My vet is pretty good and this was at 21-23 days post breeding. I do know that Gone Fishin's sperm lasts a long time because I had him tested when we purchased him. I have heard of them missing twins, but a single at this post breeding date? This was a really weird year for breeding. Mares not cycling, split cycling, not ovulating etc. So I guess nothing surprises me anymore. I will keep my fingers crossed. I will post to let you know.

[madelyn]

No. If the embryo slipped up under the pelvic rim, it could go undetected. That's why progesterone, in addition to routine ultrasound or palpation, can provide the final bit of evidence. 21-23 days is the perfect time for it to be possible to go undetected. U/s is usually scheduled for 14-20 days post ovulation. The next checkup time is 40 days. I have had to be a LOT more assiduous because of the nomination dates in the mare's calendar. If a pregnancy slips through the the foal does not get nominated for KBIF, the fee goes from $60 to $750.

[Jenny]

so you nominate them in-utero? That is a big difference in fees. We don't have to nominate them at that time. Well we will see next week. My vet said if she is in foal, we are going to swab her again. Just to make sure she in clean, because she has been bred a few times. I think he has the feeling by her size that she may have caught on a previous cover?? Weird! How would she let him breed her again? This all sounds a bit screwy to me.

I had another mare when he palpated her he said she felt like she was in foal. But when he ultra-sounded her he said he could not find a pregnancy. she also looks quite big and dropped so he will be checking her as well. I will laugh if I have 2 mares in foal.

[madelyn]

Yes, it is pretty badly done. KBIF is due by August 1 of the year the mare is bred. So you don't even know if you have a foal or not (slip, abort, etc.) and there is no refund.

[HiddenEchoFarm]

A friend had a QH mare they bought guaranteed NOT in foal as a riding horse. Of course, she foaled. Nice baby, though.

And she wasn't just a 15-day preg check. She was farther along & certified not in foal by a repro specialist. But I don't know if he did the progestrone test, or not.