Livermore Dream or Livermore's Dream?

[skeenan]

Yes, she is:

Arctiana is a beautiful, large framed, 16h dark bay 13 yr old Thoroughbred mare. She has a very pretty head, flat face, large kind eye and an exceptionally long trim neck. This mare has clean legs and a big springy trot. She's an excellent candidate for Approval by Warmblood registries. Annie is by Bold Rukus a grandson of Bold Ruler and out of a Nininsky II granddaughter. She was raced lightly at two and three, but was noncompetitive. Annie has had four foals (no idea if they're TB or not) and is sound for breeding. She also did some light ring work seven years ago before becoming a broodmare. This very nice mare is at our Laura location. Her adoption fee is $300. FMI contact [email protected]

She is on the New Vocations rescue website: http://www.horseadoption.com. I wrote a post on New Vocations that included her- I hoped someone would comment on the fact she has Bold Ruckus as a sire- but the post took off on another tangent!

I understand what you're saying, Linda in TX... very valid points... I guess what I'm trying to get a sense of, and can't put into words well enough...

It's the "boxers or briefs" question- strong sire, or top broodmare sire?

I guess I'm trying to ask if two pair beats a full house... As in, does the #15 broodmare sire status "matter", really? Or does it strictly come down to personal preference and pedigree, period?

Hope I'm making some sense!

And thanks for your comments on Mt. Livermore's status!
I checked this morning on CANTER's website... after all the post comments, I thought for sure I'd see SOLD next to her listing! Although sometimes they don't post changes until after the weekend... was hoping for photos, too... curious to see what the girl looks like!

[Linda in TX]

I guess what I'm trying to get a sense of, and can't put into words well enough...It's the "boxers or briefs" question- strong sire, or top broodmare sire? I guess I'm trying to ask if two pair beats a full house... As in, does the #15 broodmare sire status "matter", really? Or does it strictly come down to personal preference and pedigree

Top broodmare sires usually come form the ranks of (previous) top sires.

The current top general sires are generally younger with few producing daughters, and the top broodmare sires are either much older, pensioned or dead. Right now, Mr. Prospector is the leading broodmare sire - his youngest foals were born in 2000 and he might have a few kids still running but not enough for him to be currently ranked on the general sire list. AP Indy is currently ranked fourth on the general sire list but he's not ranked in the top 100 on the broodmare sire list - his oldest daughters are only ten.

Let's assume you had to choose between a daughter by either sire, and could use no other criteria. As far as I'm concerned, you might as well flip a coin. The only advantage to owning a mare by a stallion already established as a broodmare sire, such as Mr. Prospector, is having more information available when planning a mating. But rest assured, AP Indy's daughters will eventually secure daddy's place at or near the top of the broodmare sire list.

An obscure or "lesser" sire may appear on either sire list based on stand out performances by one offspring, but that rarely happens, and when it does, the sire's name disappears the following year. It's unlikely Smile will appear among the top 100 broodmare sires in 2005. He appears this year only because Smarty Jones earned seven million bucks.

Top broodmare sires were also top sires who stood at the best farms and were mated to the best mares. I'd be disinclined to split hairs over a prospective broodmare sired by a stallion ranking higher than another if both sires are consistently in the top 100 on either list. I'd base my decision on other criteria and information.

The question you're asking is kinda like asking: "Who would you bet on in a race - the horse ridden by Pat Day or the one ridden by Gary Stevens - when the odds are nearly identical on both horses...? Pat Day is currently ranked higher than Gary Stevens in the top 100 jockeys but we know both are "elite" jockeys and either can be on the winner. How do you distinguish between the two? If the criteria (information) for basing my bet was limited to choosing between those two jockeys, I couldn't do it. Instead, I'd go buy a beer with my two bucks.

[skeenan]

Thanks for the response! Exactly the type of insight I was hoping for!

What you're saying makes total sense, concerning broodmare sires coming from the sires lists. I've noticed a lot of broodmare sires are deceased, just never made the full connection that they came from the sires list first... well, I guess if I had years of this under my belt, I would have seen some stallions change lists...

For me, it's an extremely helpful piece of info. I hope to learn all I can to recognize what's considered "valuable" in a pedigree... besides evaluating a sale horse, hopefully if I ever see that one mare that would be stupid to pass up, I won't be the stupid one who does!

[skeenan]

Hmmm... Arctiana is not on the site any more... she must have been adopted!

[Marli]

I've actually just run across this mare (Arctiana) as a new arrival to this rescue in North Carolina-

http://www.carolinaequinesociety.org/available.htm

Scroll down to 'New Arrivals' and she's the 6th one on the list. Not sure why she would be traveling from New Vocations to this rescue in N.C.??

Anyone know anything about this rescue in North Carolina - just by skimming over some of the pages, it appears they do PROMOTE breeding of racing horses, the majority are mares/stallions with the exception of 1 lone gelding listed under the New Arrivals. If you read the adoption contract, a percentage of interest is retained by them. Definately a different type of rescue!

[skeenan]

I checked the description and although the name is the same, I don't think it's the same mare...?

Arctiana is 16 hands and 13 years old, according to the NV description. The description also says bay- the photos of Arctiana, she looks dark, almost black. I'll have to check back when they post a photo!

But thanks for the new site- I'm running out of mares whose pedigrees I can look up!