She has been for sale for a long time for $2500 and I guess someone bought her and they are asking $20,000 for her on salesring.com
That's alot of money for a daughter of Miesque's Son.
Keith
Anyone see Bargain Dancer for sale on Salesring.com?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, Jessi P, madelyn
About selling of horses
I just was reading through your post Keith and i am wondering if you are like me and am getting tired of these people that advertise horses on the internet for sale for increadibly outrageous prices.I take a look around frequently at the horses for sale web sites and i wonder what some of these people are smoking.They'll take some nickel bred that has been dusted for 2500 claiming at a lowly track add the words scopey,free jumped and/or poor rides or poor trainer and then list the horse for 15,000$ 
That is part of the reason that some owners back out of the game because they know nothing about buying or selling horses and i know of three people that have bought horses sight unseen over the internet in similar conditions as i stated above.
Ryeno
That is part of the reason that some owners back out of the game because they know nothing about buying or selling horses and i know of three people that have bought horses sight unseen over the internet in similar conditions as i stated above.
Ryeno
"The easiest way to end up with a million dollars in the horseracing business is to start with 3 million!"
there was a stallion on the new england canter for $2500 neg forever then I saw him on equine.com for $20,000 it was very funny he was a stakes winning stallion but still not that great.
"The blood runs hot in the Thoroughbred and the courage runs deep.
In the best of them, pride is limitless. This is their heritage and
they carry it like a banner. What they have, they use."
---C. W. Anderson
In the best of them, pride is limitless. This is their heritage and
they carry it like a banner. What they have, they use."
---C. W. Anderson
I guess its like going to a garage sale and finding an item for a nickle and selling it to someone else for thousands.....buyers should always vet check before they spend the $$, I will never understand why someone will pay $20,000 for a potential racehorse but not spend the additional $100 for a vet check? And if the seller gets the price why not?
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st. louis kid
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I also find it insulting what some people advertise their horses for. Check out a broodmare on Starquine.com called Maraschino. She is by Housebuster, she never won a race, earned $9800, is a half brother to a stakes winner in the racing mecca of Hungary. Produced two foals, no winners, in foal to cheap sire Lord Carson. Advertised for (i kid you not) $100,000 American money. I wouldn't pay $15,000 for her.
st louis kid
hey st louis kid,
I had a funny instance happen to me a couple of years ago.I seen a horse advertised in my neck of the woods on the internet for 62,000$.I went to the part of there ad for the pedigree.It took me 5 minutes to stop laughing.He was by a stallion named Perfect Delivery who had produced a couple of horses that ran on our bushes.The mare was a 5,000 career maiden that ran at our track until she was barred(poor performance),went to the bushes,couldnt win there.So this girl bought her out of an auction for 500$.Spends 500$ on a stud fee,foals out the mare and now its worth 62,000$!!!!!!!!.I couldnt help myself,i had to contact this girl,so after I sent an e-mail to her asking what on earth could make this horse worth so much money?She then informed me in a reply that this horse in a paddock out ran a STANDARDBRED who equalled the track record at our Harness Track and that he had made 61,000$ so add the amount she paid for the mare and the stud fee that is how she came up with the price! I am not kidding!When I replied to her e-mail she responded back by saying that I was no judge of horses and that she was taking a shot and if anyone did bite she'd be able to buy that new Dodge Durango she always wanted!
Ryeno
I had a funny instance happen to me a couple of years ago.I seen a horse advertised in my neck of the woods on the internet for 62,000$.I went to the part of there ad for the pedigree.It took me 5 minutes to stop laughing.He was by a stallion named Perfect Delivery who had produced a couple of horses that ran on our bushes.The mare was a 5,000 career maiden that ran at our track until she was barred(poor performance),went to the bushes,couldnt win there.So this girl bought her out of an auction for 500$.Spends 500$ on a stud fee,foals out the mare and now its worth 62,000$!!!!!!!!.I couldnt help myself,i had to contact this girl,so after I sent an e-mail to her asking what on earth could make this horse worth so much money?She then informed me in a reply that this horse in a paddock out ran a STANDARDBRED who equalled the track record at our Harness Track and that he had made 61,000$ so add the amount she paid for the mare and the stud fee that is how she came up with the price! I am not kidding!When I replied to her e-mail she responded back by saying that I was no judge of horses and that she was taking a shot and if anyone did bite she'd be able to buy that new Dodge Durango she always wanted!
Ryeno
"The easiest way to end up with a million dollars in the horseracing business is to start with 3 million!"
All I can respond with here is that this is an open market, and people are free to ask any price for their horses; whether they get it or not is up to the buyer. A horse is worth what someone is willing to pay for. Many a horse was bought for millions of $$, yet amounted to nothing in the end, and while this is not so good an example, there are many stories about cheap broodmares which ended up creating money makers. Rough N' Tumble was one example, and he became the foundation sire of the Florida breeding success. If I remember well, the dam of Funny Cide was picked up for $3,500 at an auction. I'm sure there are many such stories.
As to any buyer paying 'too much' for a horse, that's their problem. Anytime you get into a new business, you have to do as much reseawrch as possible to get your feet wet, and there are plenty of good bloodstock experts out there.
Broodmares and stallion prospects are seldom vetted, unless there is a big problem that would cause big time trouble later and with the insurance company. I understand that stallions are not fertility tested prior to a sale either.
Not too long ago, there was a mare advertised in foal to Hold That Tiger for $55K. She was sitting there for a pretty good while until one day, she was sold, but I don't know for how much as the indicated sales price may not be the actual sales price. Regardless, I REALLY liked the mare; she had won quite a bit of money, raced many times, was a heck of a good looker, but wasn't all that well bred.
Now Hold That Tiger has the highest number of mares bred, lol., and while he didn't set the world on fire as a race horse, he is promoted to the utmost and the sales are probably going to be full of little Hold That Tigers, lol. I'll definitely keep my eyes open on this mare and her produce, just to see, if my inkling was correct or not. Her name is Arpeggio.
Bottom line: I think people have a right to ask for as much as they like for a horse; whether they can get it or not is another story. If they do, more power to them, and it is nobody's business what they actually acquired the horse for. Finder's keeper?
Sabine
As to any buyer paying 'too much' for a horse, that's their problem. Anytime you get into a new business, you have to do as much reseawrch as possible to get your feet wet, and there are plenty of good bloodstock experts out there.
Broodmares and stallion prospects are seldom vetted, unless there is a big problem that would cause big time trouble later and with the insurance company. I understand that stallions are not fertility tested prior to a sale either.
Not too long ago, there was a mare advertised in foal to Hold That Tiger for $55K. She was sitting there for a pretty good while until one day, she was sold, but I don't know for how much as the indicated sales price may not be the actual sales price. Regardless, I REALLY liked the mare; she had won quite a bit of money, raced many times, was a heck of a good looker, but wasn't all that well bred.
Now Hold That Tiger has the highest number of mares bred, lol., and while he didn't set the world on fire as a race horse, he is promoted to the utmost and the sales are probably going to be full of little Hold That Tigers, lol. I'll definitely keep my eyes open on this mare and her produce, just to see, if my inkling was correct or not. Her name is Arpeggio.
Bottom line: I think people have a right to ask for as much as they like for a horse; whether they can get it or not is another story. If they do, more power to them, and it is nobody's business what they actually acquired the horse for. Finder's keeper?
Sabine
sb
You are correct sb anyone can sell any horse for any price they choose if that is their perogitive.My beef was only about the harm it does within the horse racing industry when this occurs.Most knowledgable horsemen/women know when a horse is unreasonably priced but IMO these people who inflate their horses prices are crooks,praying on the uninformed and making this sport even less attractive for new people to get involved with through word of mouth.Hey dont get me wrong if someone truly feels their horse is worth what they are selling it for then great go on with it,but it is when they know their horse isnt worth 10% of their asking price is when I get steamed.As far as their are many bloodstock agents out there willing to help you are right!There are many bloodstock agents that are willing to take a new owner to the cleaners on a over priced under valued horse(s) that they are purchasing from one of their friends.(Not saying all bloodstock agents are crooks).You spoke on horses selling for millions of dollars that turned out to be nothing and that happens but obviously they had something in their bloodlines that suggested otherwise and also they probably all went through a auction which is not a true reflection on their true value rather what 2 people decided their limits were.
Bottom Line:It is unethical and sounds more like a used car salesman tactics then the regalities of the true sport of kings.
Ryeno
Side Note:I am not begruding ANYONE who buys a horse for a low amount of money and sells for a large profit if it is justified>IE if you buy a mare out of a sale and the next year her offspring wins a stake and you sell her for a nice profit.Just the people who falsely represent themselves and the horse too achieve that profit.
Bottom Line:It is unethical and sounds more like a used car salesman tactics then the regalities of the true sport of kings.
Ryeno
Side Note:I am not begruding ANYONE who buys a horse for a low amount of money and sells for a large profit if it is justified>IE if you buy a mare out of a sale and the next year her offspring wins a stake and you sell her for a nice profit.Just the people who falsely represent themselves and the horse too achieve that profit.
Last edited by Ryeno on Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The easiest way to end up with a million dollars in the horseracing business is to start with 3 million!"
hi, I've got to say I agree with Sb.It is no one's business what you paid for a horse or what you ask for a horse.If you can make money in this business all the more power to you! Look at the racing programs,there is a pile of horses that people paid big bucks for at auction that have made next to zero at the track.As long as you do not falsify info I don't see the problem.I guess it is a matter of Buyer Beware.
But it can work in reverse, for the knowledgeable...
I've seen, as I'm sure you all have, some truly gorgeous TB's for sale for cheap money ($200-$700, for example) that with some rework under saddle could be resold all day long for roughly $1,000-$1,200 in my area at least (or more, if they have obvious talent). If I had winter riding facilities, I'd be doing it...
I'm sure the racing industry probably has more of this phenomenon because of the incredible "value" of pedigrees. I've seen some "...sold for $60,000 as a yearling..." horses that are NOT good-looking horses at all. Totally different criteria than other horse industries- no one would pay $30,000 for a jumper without at least seeing the horse go round a course... or no one would buy an "ugly" show horse... yet someone will pay HUGE money for an untested yearling whose sire won the Kentucky Derby...
But c'mon now... you guys can't say that if you were sitting at the Keeneland auction as they paraded your yearling out and someone decided to bid $80,000 that you'd stand up and say, "Sorry, I think you're really paying too much for a son/daughter by X..."
That "chance opportunity" is the only thing that is making my husband somewhat consider letting me buy a broodmare someday... so don't tell him otherwise, ha ha!
I've seen, as I'm sure you all have, some truly gorgeous TB's for sale for cheap money ($200-$700, for example) that with some rework under saddle could be resold all day long for roughly $1,000-$1,200 in my area at least (or more, if they have obvious talent). If I had winter riding facilities, I'd be doing it...
I'm sure the racing industry probably has more of this phenomenon because of the incredible "value" of pedigrees. I've seen some "...sold for $60,000 as a yearling..." horses that are NOT good-looking horses at all. Totally different criteria than other horse industries- no one would pay $30,000 for a jumper without at least seeing the horse go round a course... or no one would buy an "ugly" show horse... yet someone will pay HUGE money for an untested yearling whose sire won the Kentucky Derby...
But c'mon now... you guys can't say that if you were sitting at the Keeneland auction as they paraded your yearling out and someone decided to bid $80,000 that you'd stand up and say, "Sorry, I think you're really paying too much for a son/daughter by X..."
That "chance opportunity" is the only thing that is making my husband somewhat consider letting me buy a broodmare someday... so don't tell him otherwise, ha ha!
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st. louis kid
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Where i grew up its called fishing for a sucker. Ask 10 times what something is worth, it only takes one buyer ignorant of the marketplace. Its a free country, its legal to sell your property for whatever you can get. I also have the right to think its a b.s. price and look at your business practice with disdain when you do it. The true pro's in any business want both parties in a transcation to be happy after the sale and know that a good business relies on repeat customers.
Sheep may get sheared, but pigs get slaughtered eventually.
Sheep may get sheared, but pigs get slaughtered eventually.
Exactly...
... if the owner can't even get a handle on the market value of said horse (either because of ignorance or greed), I'd have to wonder if they have a handle on that horse's ability/capability/talent... if they're ignorant, then they probably have no clue, and if they're greedy, they may just tell you what you want to hear... if they're both, buyer beware!
I would tend to initially trust more the seller who is offering a horse at a fair market value for the talents listed... as you pointed out,
And my Keeneland comment... as someone pointed out earlier, auction prices do not accurately reflect "worth"... I think ending up at a high purchase price (whether the horse is worth it or not) by "chance" in an auction environment is different than a seller setting a high price from the get-go...
... if the owner can't even get a handle on the market value of said horse (either because of ignorance or greed), I'd have to wonder if they have a handle on that horse's ability/capability/talent... if they're ignorant, then they probably have no clue, and if they're greedy, they may just tell you what you want to hear... if they're both, buyer beware!
I would tend to initially trust more the seller who is offering a horse at a fair market value for the talents listed... as you pointed out,
The true pro's in any business want both parties in a transcation to be happy after the sale.
And my Keeneland comment... as someone pointed out earlier, auction prices do not accurately reflect "worth"... I think ending up at a high purchase price (whether the horse is worth it or not) by "chance" in an auction environment is different than a seller setting a high price from the get-go...