Very specific horse want

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vineyridge
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Very specific horse want

Postby vineyridge » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:06 pm

This would not be for racing at all. Intended use is eventing, which has three phases--dressage, cross country over solid jumps, and arena show jumping over flimsy jumps and tight courses. Only Pure TB need apply. :)

Looking for a horse from lines that have done well in eventing in the past. Lines with Chaser breeding (such as Mokhieba, Carnivalay, etc.) would be a plus. I'm thinking I'm more likely to find the lines that I'm looking for on the Eastern Seaboard. This also means no doubles to Mr. P or Native Dancer and no more than two to Northern Dancer. One RAN is okay. Turf and stamina lines are preferred, the older the better. The more Bay Ronald/Hyperion the better, but Tudor Minstrel and Beau Pere are huge pluses. The more Teddy the better. Damascus would be good, and multiple Nearco/Nasrullah is okay. Old time Domino-like sprinters or milers are okay; QH type sprinters are not. The more lines to the old French lines of Dollar and Le Sancy (Herod) the better. My Babu is superlative, as is Wild Risk.

I know exactly what lines I want and what lines I do not want. The ideal pedigree will have Matchem, Eclipse and Herod sire lines all appearing on the first page of the pedigree, plus the sire of the mares in the fifth.

Specifics--looking for an unraced filly under 3 yo with fluid movement that uses the whole body in a walk that overtracks well, with good reach underneath. A bit of knee action preferred at the trot. Fluid Canter. Good efficient gallop, but speed is not a consideration. Trainability is essential, either in the individual or, if young, in her lines. Brain is critical; horse must either be or come from lines that can solve problems and develop what is called "the fifth leg"--the brains and independence from the rider for self preservation in dangerous situations. Uphill build measured from the point of stifle going forward to point of elbow preferred but level is acceptable. Good oblique shoulder with open angle at the humerus and long, tall, well defined withers wanted. Very open illium/ischium angle preferred. Point of croup directly over point of hip or very close to that.

Prefer quality in the first or second generation, unless the horse is packed with lines that have done particularly well at non-racing sport in the past. I know (or at least I think I know) what those lines are. Of course, what is quality to me in this search might well not be quality to you.

While it sounds like I don't care about the mare lines, they are crucial. But I know which lines I want in that also. They are pretty much the classic TB racing lines for classic distance and longer (i.e. European distance races and the old JC Gold Cup back in the day.)

I'm open to any and all suggestions and hope I haven't scared you folks off. PMs, please.
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TrueColours
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Postby TrueColours » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:36 am

How cool! A request this specific when someone knows EXACTLY what they want! :)

Let me put my thinking cap on and beat some bushes and see what can find around here for you ... :)

Im assuming +16hh as well would apply?
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Postby madelyn » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:20 am

A price range would be good also.
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vineyridge
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Postby vineyridge » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:34 am

10k max, including shipping and costs. Since the lines I want are very unfashionable these days, if they even exist, not really looking for a big stud fee sire.

Might bend the requirements a bit for a slow three yo with a few starts or race training, but it would have to be just about perfect on paper and PPE.
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francesca
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check Dodon farm

Postby francesca » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:30 pm

I know that Stewart Pittman has Mokheiba mares in his bloodlines and his stallion Salute the Truth has some of the old bloodlines you are looking for. Google Dodon Farm

vineyridge
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Re: check Dodon farm

Postby vineyridge » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:28 pm

francesca wrote:I know that Stewart Pittman has Mokheiba mares in his bloodlines and his stallion Salute the Truth has some of the old bloodlines you are looking for. Google Dodon Farm


I know all about Steuart Pittman and Dodon Farms. They just don't have any fillies available at the moment who are the right age and pure TB.
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Wekiva Springs

Postby hpkingjr » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:17 pm

Have you searched for a Wekiva Springs filly? I believe he has most of what you are searching for in a sire line. He is double copy grey so all his fillies are grey.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/wekiva+springs
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Postby oleos93 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:08 pm

Not sure if you are aware but Caro, whom sired Winning Colors, also sired 2 Olympic Jumpers, "Tashi Ling" and "Ping Pong",

Did not see any request for Caro in there. I know eventing has three phases, but jumping to most eventers is the most important.

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Postby kimberley mine » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:14 am

On paper, Temple City, Purim, and especially Action This Day have what you're looking for. Temple City is a bit unfortunate-looking....huge shark fin withers and a great big Dynaformer suitcase head....but neither of those will affect performance, just aesthetics.

Out Of Place is another good line to look for.

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Postby reedhill » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:31 am

I have a broodmare NATURALLY NICE who's Damsire is MOKHIEBA. She's a retired Jumper.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/naturally+nice2

She has foaled two all white TB's and a dark Bay frame overo positive filly in 2011 for us.

HELIODORIS her white gelding is Eventing in VA.
http://www.reedhillfarm.net/2008allamystiquefoals.html

Her white filly started race training when they pulled her out to change direction.

DARQUEST CINDER (frame overo positive filly) will Event in California.
http://www.reedhillfarm.net/nurserytwo.html (scroll down).

This mare throws foals that have a long gallop stride and they are fearless through the jump shute, they have all gotten mom's ht.

"Natty" is in foal to 17H Palomino TB TWENTYFOUR KT GOLD for 2012.
http://www.reedhillfarm.net/Shine.html

I don't have a 3 y/o filly, but thought I'd offer the bloodline I have in her foal.
Good luck in your search! Carolyn

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Postby vineyridge » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:12 am

I do know about Caro, Cozzene and With Approval. Caro punches the :"all three foundation sires" on the first page requirement. If fact, he's one of my data points for developing what I'd like to see on paper.
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Postby oleos93 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:06 pm

If you where looking for older then 3 I would have a nice filly with Caro on her top side. Her half brother, Miracle Son, stands near me in WA throwing jumpers. She only breds for Appy sport horses, kind of a shame he is a nice stud.

She is 5 this year though. Misstcaro is her name if interested in having a look......she is already broke though and in race training but never raced.

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Postby cissiny » Sun May 13, 2012 6:47 am

I really like your thoughts, vineyridge. :)

If I would be looking for a mare/filly (which I am not at the moment, no plans to buy within a few years, but always keeping my eyes open for specific bloodlines) I would go the same way that I do when it comes to "sporthorse breeding", i.e. my list would be:
1. The female line
2. The female line :wink:
3. The female line :wink: :D
4. Sire's female line
5. Combination of bloodlines (interesting line-breeding, preferably sex-balanced)

Well, I think you get my point :D . It is very obvious, regardless of which breed, that the importance of the female line is "the key" to good sporthorses but even more in broodmares as well as sires. Especially when it comes to TBs, don't look for a specific disciplines - the most influential lines do produce eventers as well as jumpers and dressagehorses.

My sister has had two TB mares, the first one from a fantastic line here in Sweden that has produced international eventers and dressage horses as well as advanced jumpers. Also some good racehorses, some racing until the age of 8-10 :).

The second one really got me confused... Bred in the UK, I went a few generations back but all I could find was racehorses. A few good ones, Gr-placed, many good Steeplechasers. But apparently none that ever competed in eventing/jumping/dressage? Or even a single broodmare used in other breeds? I really like that mare and her two offspring (both TBs) are truly sporthorse types with lots of talent especially for eventing.

Well, after years of searching I found a sister to my sister's mare... I was very surprised when I saw that she had progeny with Connemara pony stallions... It turned out that this mare (Historical Fact) http://www.pedigreequery.com/historical+fact was not as impressive as a racehorse broodmare (she is the granddam of at least one Stakeswinner though) so she was given away to a Connemara pony breeder. One of the results is this international eventer: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10549898

I know that there are mares from this line in North America, many through Runalong Dear: http://www.pedigreequery.com/runalong+dear

Just some thoughts :)

Best wishes,
Cissi

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Postby zinn21 » Sun May 13, 2012 1:38 pm

Not familiar at all with the "Eventing" game but wouldn't you be eliminating a heck of a lot of horses who might have all the physical/mental attributes but don't fit your breeding requirements? Wouldn't a certain type trump breeding?

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Classic Lines

Postby herbager » Sat May 19, 2012 5:31 am

What about the Herbager Sire line...any interest there?
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