Back to Pedigree Query
It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:16 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:22 am 
Offline
Suckling

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:09 am
Posts: 16
Hello - I have an opportunity to buy a 16 year old stakes placed, graded stakes (G3 placed and G1 placed in Ballerina stakes) producing mare. The mare is part of a dispersal sale and was put out to me privately as the owner has died. She was vet checked in foal in June to Stay Thirsty, but on the pre-purchase exam, it was discovered she is not in foal. The asking price for her is $2,500. She has a 2 year old that was bought at the OBS sale by Zensational for $25,000 and is training well with a recent work of 47.6 from the gate on All Weather Surface at 4 furlongs. Her graded stakes placing daughter last raced in early 2016, but records do not show that she has been bred, so I anticipate that she might be having some down time before returning to the track. This mare produced an incredible looking foal by Istan this year. But in 2014 she was barren after being bred to Munnings, she was bred in 2015 to Istan and had a live foal, but is now not in foal for this year. I don't have a lot of experience with older broodmares as mine were all maiden off the track. So I am seeking some advice if she is a worthwhile investment. My bloodstock agent is away on vacation and out of the country so I can't consult him as he originally told me to buy her when she was believed in foal, but now that she isn't, I'm torn on what to do. This mare would be 18 before she foals again. Now - this mare wasn't bred until 2008 and her first foal was born in 2009. So it's not like she has been popping out babies since she was 4 or 5. She has foaled 7 foals. Of the 7, one died in training, one died as a weanling. Two of her offspring have been bred for this year to Mr. Big and Sky Kingdom. Of the two that have shown the most promise - both are from crosses with Unbridled's Song sons (Harlington and Zensational).

If I purchase her - I would be able to breed her early in January and have enough time to ensure that she takes with proper monitoring. She was only covered once this year in April - was in foal reportedly in June, but not the first part of August. Also - I could cross her with another better quality son of Unbridled Song like Liam's Map, Midshipman or Will Take Charge.

I'm just afraid of her age. I believe that there is a point in time when you stop breeding a mare, but perhaps with her being barren in 2014 and again in 2016 - this is allowing her body time to recover in between without pushing her physically beyond what she can handle.

Would you think she is a whorthwhile investment? Her graded stakes placed daughter and her 2 yr old were both by not as well known stallions and her Istan colt is pretty nice - photo attached (note they are selling him as well ($15,000). Is it a risk worth taking given the all in costs for her before she produces? I can probably get a foal share with her which saves on stud fees, but splits profits. I could also get her in foal and sell her. She sold for $13,000 the last time she sol in foal with the Zensational colt I believe. Not great - her age hurts her.

Any thoughts or advice would be great
Her name is Graziella if you would like to look her up - and she is from the same female line as the Triple Crown Winner Shuvee.

Thanks,
Tami


Attachments:
File comment: Istan colt 2
2016 Graziella b x Istan.jpg
2016 Graziella b x Istan.jpg [ 269.36 KiB | Viewed 1076 times ]
File comment: Istan colt
2016 Graziella c x Istan.jpg
2016 Graziella c x Istan.jpg [ 179.38 KiB | Viewed 1076 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:20 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 6:11 am
Posts: 1176
Location: KY
Random thoughts. Will you be paying to board her? If so how much? If it costs you $1,500.00 per month to keep her then you will be breeding a 17 year old mare with a spotty breeding history to hopefully get a 18 year old mare with foal. Twenty fours months of board would be $36,000.00 plus stud fee, vet bills and transportation . A twenty thousand dollar stud fee plus keeping the foal after weaning puts you in the eighty thousand range. It better be a nice foal.

_________________
Give the Pope and the King of England a horse and in thirty days, they'll be stealing halters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:09 pm 
Offline
Suckling

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:09 am
Posts: 16
Hello - you are spot on with my concerns - they echo mine. I will be boarding her in order to keep her in Kentucky as I live in Nebraska. I get a great deal on my boarding at $17 a day for mare and for mare with foal at side. So for 24 months of board it would be $12,648. Then there is the foaling fees, vet fees, farrier and insurance. Then if I do a foal share - I save on the stud fee, but my profit would have to be high enough in order to recover my investment. Just seems incredibly too high risk for me.
Thanks,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:46 pm 
Offline
Yearling

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Virginia
Hi,

I would not rule her out if she suits your breeding program, with a few caveats.

Since she is open, you can have your vet do a more thorough breeding soundness exam including a uterine biopsy. This will give you a good indication as to whether she is fit for breeding. It is a downside when buying an older mare who is pregnant -- you can't biopsy them!

Beyond that, if she will have access to good reproductive management and veterinary care, I would think she is worth a shot. It would be great if you can get her health records from her previous vet and have your vet look over them. I am amazed that some of the basics get skipped on bigger farms and that can cost you a pregnancy. I don't like to blame the mare first -- I like to look at how she was managed and see if there is room for improvement.

As is pretty much always the case, the purchase price pales in comparison to what upkeep will be so the real question is do you want to invest in her. I have seen much older mares that are stakes producers sell for a lot more than $2500.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:30 am 
Offline
Yearling

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Virginia
The more I look at this mare on paper, the more I like her.

I would not shy away based solely on her breeding record. She had six foals in a row without missing a beat, then was not pregnant for 2015, then aborted this year. I would at least pursue a breeding soundness exam.

Her six year old daughter certainly has an interesting story -- $12,500 claimer to stakes winner, GSP and Breeder's Cup starter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:54 am 
Offline
Suckling

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:09 am
Posts: 16
Thanks for all your feedback. Her Zensational colt "uncl B" has logged a good work from the gate at 47.6. Her daughter has been need to Curlin. I will pursue the breeding soundness exam. She has been a producer and this last year was not managed well as the new owner died and kids wanted nothing to do with horses, so kind of neglected health care wise (not severe, just not close monitoring). I will consult with my vet, see if I can get her records and go from there.
Thanks,
Tami


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group