Provoking Cat is listed as a black horse and while I've noted a couple of them in the Form over the years, I'm wondering just how many are out there. Are they becoming less common? Are people misidentifying dark bays as black? just wonderin'

jm

_________________
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.

It has been my experience it is the other way around; ie: lots of black horses get registered as dark bay. I have not tried it but people have reported that it can be difficult to register a horse as black. The color might be "corrected" by the JC if they see a sliver of a brown hair anywhere in the registration photos. I have a mare in my barn, Callie Hermosa, who I believe is BLACK. She has no telltale mule muzzle or lighter hairs above the stifle. She was registered as dark bay. Her overcoat that is shedding out now had brown overtones which happens as the pigments in the winter coat fade after the coat dies and is being released. The real truth might be revealed once she foals in April since she was bred to my chestnut and chrome stallion, Thabit. If she throws a bay then they were right all along she is a dark bay. But if I get red or jet black.. well maybe the color conspirators can chime in here.

_________________
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

Unless Thabit has been tested for the Agouti gene, you may get a bay, even if the mare is black.

Chestnuts can hide the Agouti gene, because it only acts on black pigment.

According to the coat color calculator at http://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/CCalculator1.asp

the Offspring Color Probability is:

37.50% - Black
37.50% - Bay
25.00% - Red (Chestnut/Sorrel)

If you want to be sure of the mare's color, you'll have to get it tested. I know UC Davis does it - the info is at http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/coatcolorhorse.php and you'd want the red factor/Agouti panel.

Thanks so much for the information! I think, though, I will just wait a week or so for the foal to come out. It's that time of year again!

_________________
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

Well I got 100% Black.. just a cute white star. Colt. He's really gorgeous. I think I might try to register him as black and see what happens. Since they get DNA in the DNA kit the JC should be able to also get the genetic color with the parentage, n'est ce pas?

_________________
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

Yes it used to be very difficult, you had to submit a vet report, photos from 100 angles and probably your first born to get it changed (as they very rarely registered anything as black, it was automatically dbbr. Then you had to PROVE it was black (see above!). Now though you can get a color test done (used to be $25 for simple agouti red/black but probably more now) and send them the test results and get them registered properly.

_________________
Every mighty oak was once an acorn that stood its ground.

Hi Madelyn,

Hope you and yours are doing well! I would love to see a photo of that colt you have that is black. How lucky can you be?! And w/a star too.. Thabit is looking good, by looking at him you would never think he'd sire a black foal. If you have any photos, name, etc. can you post? I have a "thing" for black TB's. My horsie co-owner in Lexington had gone to the Keeneland sales a few years back and she knew I loved them, so she bought a black yearling filly. Raya turned out being the best runner we had, she would break great, and go wire to wire.
I'm sure you know they sun fade, so she would look sometimes as if she had sun tipped hairs on her. It's just not fair to leave them standing in a stall all day..

I would love if you could post a photo..thanks

_________________
We will NEVER see another Ruffian......