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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Another reference: http://forum.cyberhorse.com.au/forums/a ... 55251.html


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:57 pm 
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Any update on LILAC HILL and her chances of reproducing her color?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:07 pm 
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The latest on LILAC HILL's breeding record:

SeasonDOBColourSexName or Last Service DateSireComment
2009 04/11bfilly 29/11/2008 Hartley's Spirit (AUS) DNA test due Oct 2010
2008 24/11/2007 Hartley's Spirit (AUS) foal born dead
2007 20/12/2006 Hartley's Spirit (AUS) slipped


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Dear Collaborators,

Would really like to have the opportunity to see a picture on these very rare phenotype horses from Australia. Thanks in advance for any assistance.


01. GOLDHILL PARK (Bay H 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/goldhill+park

02. IN THE HAND (Gray or Brown 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/in+the+hand3

03. LILAC HILL (Bay M 2000) http://www.pedigreequery.com/lilac+hill2

04. RED NOBLE (Bay G 1996) http://www.pedigreequery.com/red+noble3

05. WHISTLE DOWN (Chestnut H 1999) http://www.pedigreequery.com/whistle+down2

06. “by CATCH A BIRD—BENDING STAR” (Bay M 1997)
her dam’s pedigree at http://www.pedigreequery.com/bending+star

07. WILD DOVE (Bay M 1997) http://www.pedigreequery.com/wild+dove3

08. SLIP CATCH (Bay M 1993) http://www.pedigreequery.com/slip+catch

09. TURFSIDE STAR (Bay H 1998) http://www.pedigreequery.com/turfside+star

10. FLOYD (Chestnut H 2004) http://www.pedigreequery.com/floyd5

11. BLETCH CATCH (Bay M 2005) http://www.pedigreequery.com/bletch+catch


Any update? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Jorge, not sure if this is a valid claim, but I had a look at a message board (bridlepath) from people who took horses off the vet who had all the horses.
Quote" all the roans she has there are all standardbreds by strews from Classic Gary or her home bred classic gary stallion “coloniel pursuit”.

Supposedly, all the photos she claimed were of purebred roan TB's, were, in fact Standardbreds, or aussie stock horses.
Again, not sure how true this claim is, but numerous sources on this forum say the same thing.

According to this board, Catch a Bird did not actually produce the roan babies off TB mares. But again, the commentors are standardbred breeders/triners, not TB's.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:34 pm 
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since the Australian JC is very strict and since the roan offspring of Catch A Bird are registered with the ASB which is the Australian Stud book for TBs, they ARE true TBs.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:31 pm 
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They are indeed Tbs.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:24 am 
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As far as my knowledge, all these equines are Thoroughbreds. Thats the reason why I included their pedigrees.

01. GOLDHILL PARK (Bay H 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/goldhill+park

02. IN THE HAND (Gray or Brown 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/in+the+hand3

03. LILAC HILL (Bay M 2000) http://www.pedigreequery.com/lilac+hill2

04. RED NOBLE (Bay G 1996) http://www.pedigreequery.com/red+noble3

05. WHISTLE DOWN (Chestnut H 1999) http://www.pedigreequery.com/whistle+down2

06. “by CATCH A BIRD—BENDING STAR” (Bay M 1997)
her dam’s pedigree at http://www.pedigreequery.com/bending+star

07. WILD DOVE (Bay M 1997) http://www.pedigreequery.com/wild+dove3

08. SLIP CATCH (Bay M 1993) http://www.pedigreequery.com/slip+catch

09. TURFSIDE STAR (Bay H 1998) http://www.pedigreequery.com/turfside+star

10. FLOYD (Chestnut H 2004) http://www.pedigreequery.com/floyd5

11. BLETCH CATCH (Bay M 2005) http://www.pedigreequery.com/bletch+catch


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:20 am 
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For clarification I am not disclaiming the pedigrees of said horses are full TB's, but the possibility the photos/videos that have been shown of said roan horses are not actually the TB's they are claimed to be, but other Standardbred babies she had.

Has anyone seen, in person, these horses? Can anyone say with certainty that the photos are the horses they are claimed to be? As they are all registered as solid colours, is it possible this woman mis-represented the horses in photos? She had quite the herd by the sounds of it, mixed of standardbreds, TB's and Aussie stock horses, all running together. As a very large number of her standarbreds were roans, and she was breeding for that, is it feasible there mis-representation?

Where are all the roan TB's now? Has anyone been able to track them down to where they landed? From this thread, it seems not many have reproduced, and only a couple(one?) have raced. You would think there would be more visual representation of these horses for their uniqueness other than the owners photos.

Again, I am not trying to discredit the pedigrees, only questioning the validity of the photos to be the horses they claim to be.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:35 am 
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Shannon wrote:
For clarification I am not disclaiming the pedigrees of said horses are full TB's, but the possibility the photos/videos that have been shown of said roan horses are not actually the TB's they are claimed to be, but other Standardbred babies she had.

Has anyone seen, in person, these horses? Can anyone say with certainty that the photos are the horses they are claimed to be? As they are all registered as solid colours, is it possible this woman mis-represented the horses in photos? She had quite the herd by the sounds of it, mixed of standardbreds, TB's and Aussie stock horses, all running together. As a very large number of her standarbreds were roans, and she was breeding for that, is it feasible there mis-representation?

Where are all the roan TB's now? Has anyone been able to track them down to where they landed? From this thread, it seems not many have reproduced, and only a couple(one?) have raced. You would think there would be more visual representation of these horses for their uniqueness other than the owners photos.

Again, I am not trying to discredit the pedigrees, only questioning the validity of the photos to be the horses they claim to be.


I think you bring up some excellent points, Shannon. This person did not seem to be particularly on the up-and-up IIRC. Didn't she try to keep CAB and his offspring more or less isolated from other horsemen -- I think I remember something like that? I think CAB was eventually seized from her because of her poor care. The other horses may have been seized as well.

I will add that CAB looked like a brindle not a true roan. If he wasn't a chimeric brindle, then he should have produced brindled offspring not true roan looking offspring.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:56 pm 
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Interesting discussion.

he certainly did sire some of the roans around, because they are entered in the ASB, .. if you are a member of the ASB you can view the vet cert from their inspection/DNA etc, and the diagrams are clearly the horses pictured.

CAB did also have Australian Stock Horse rego..so yes, much of his progeny were from stock horse mares


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Unless new evidence revokes the following data, I have always read that Catch A Bird sired 4 foals with what appeared to be genuine roan phenotypes. These were:

ODD COLOURS (bay m 1992) http://www.pedigreequery.com/odd+colours
RED NOBLE (bay gelding 1996) http://www.pedigreequery.com/red+noble3
SLIP CATCH (bay mare 1993) http://www.pedigreequery.com/slip+catch
GOLDHILL PARK (bay h 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/goldhill+park

Some of the aforementioned are shown here with a photo, but we all want to be exposed to factual evidence.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Unless new evidence revokes the following data, I have always read that Catch A Bird sired 4 foals with what appeared to be genuine roan phenotypes. These were:

ODD COLOURS (bay m 1992) http://www.pedigreequery.com/odd+colours
RED NOBLE (bay gelding 1996) http://www.pedigreequery.com/red+noble3
SLIP CATCH (bay mare 1993) http://www.pedigreequery.com/slip+catch
GOLDHILL PARK (bay h 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/goldhill+park

Some of the aforementioned are shown here with a photo, but we all want to be exposed to factual evidence.


I found it interesting that of these four horses, only Odd Colours is attached to Catch A Bird2, which is the entry that has all the rest of the CAB get except for Red Noble, Slip Catch, Goldhill Park, and another horse, also called "roan", Wild Dove.

Here are my issues with the idea that CAB sired "true roan" TBs:
    1. CAB was a brindle not a "true roan"; if he was passing on his coloring, then his foals should have been brindles not roans;
    2. "true roan" is dominant, so CAB should have looked like a "true roan" and half of his get should have been "true roans" but only a few appear to be "roans";
    3. if this is was a new mutation, then it's not "true roan" even though it might look similar;
    4. the two pics in the database are of foals not mature horses, and neither is of good enough quality to say that the coloring is caused by "true roan";
    5. the vet who allegedly bred these "roans" has been decertified which says alot about her integrity;


I have another question: did other breeders besides this vet produce similar "roans" from Catch A Bird?

I would vote for rabicano or a rabicano mutation rather than "true roan" for the offspring, primarily because I could see where it's possible that CAB's unusual patterns might result from rabicano, but I can't see how a horse that wasn't a "true roan" himself could produce "true roans" from his own genetic material.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:28 pm 
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He WAS a true roan himself... in his stripes.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:17 pm 
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ACC, if he was roan in his stripes, wouldn't that mean either his sire or dam should have been phenotypically roan? And I beleive I read some where he was not considered to be a chimera, so again, wouldn't one parent need to exhibit a roan pattern of some sort?
Which leads me to ask, did either his sire or dam throw any other babies of unique colour (I tried to access the names of other offspring by both sire and dam, but not a subscriber so couldn't access it).

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