To Jorge: A white sabino in Germany

[Georgerz]

Per this ad:

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-89644


It has 100% american breeding from what I can tell.

[Jorge]

Georgerz,

Thank you so much for the fine solicitude of alerting me on this new
2008 white(?) colt ( http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-89644 ). This case looks like a headscratcher because the text seems to suggest that he may well be a "white" or a "cremello". Hope they publish something more on him and new photos on this case.
I earnestly appreciate the valuable watch.
All the Best,

[xfactor fan]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/rff+the+alchemist

Link to the sire, Milkie and Glitter Please lines, cremello stallion


This may be a dominant white, not sabino white.

[mehile]

Can it be a dominant white even though he has a palomino medicine hat? If you look closely in the picture you can see that his ears and around the top of his head is a light cream color.

[Jorge]

Just confirmed that his phenotype is sabino white and not a dilute.

[Fairplayfarm]

here is the link to the website for the farm. Lots of Sabino TBs all from popular names, Puchi, Racey as well as many dilute TBs too!!
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de/gfhome.html

[xfactor fan]

Dominant white has a confusing name, and several levels of expression. In the maximum expression, the horse is totally white. With incomplete expression the horse is white with all sorts of roany patchy spots in the base coat color.

Puchilingui could be sabino, or he could be dominant white, as proof that dominant white has just been verified, and the only sabino that can be tested for is Sabino1 which is maximum expression.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/puchilingui

Genetically the colt is going to carry only one copy of the cream gene, so he will be palomino or buckskin.

Puchilingui had a bay base coat. but has sired chestnut foals out of chestnut mares, so he carries one copy of the recessive red coat color.

Shew is registered as white, out of a dark bay/brown mare, with lots of bays/blacks in her family tree. 50/50 chance that she could be carrying the recessive red from her sire. Her other foal is listed as buckskin. And there are two foals listed for 2008, so there is some kind of error there.

[Jorge]

According to my view, it is better, perhaps much safer, at least within the Thoroughbred breed, to refer to this color as a sabino-white (Sa/Sa), rather than as an Heterozygous White Dominant (W/w). If we are going to apply to these cases the rules of "W/w", then we are opening a problematic Pandora's box, tough to explain . At least within the Thoroughbred breed. My area of research and experience is, majoritarily, Thoroughbreds, but I respect other observer's view, even more if they are dealing with other breeds. As far as I have learned, the most reknown scientific connoisseurs refer to Thoroughbreds that are white as sabino-based, not as white dominants (W/w). Who knows if in the future a new theory will come out and change things, but right now, the safest paradigm is the sabino pattern.
Kind regards,

[xfactor fan]

Dominant White has been found in TB's. Seems to be a mutation in the KIT gene complex, which is where the Sabino mutation also lurks. Seems like each breed of horse has a slightly different version of the mutation. And following that logic, it could crop up as a new mutation in different bloodlines within the same breed.

The thread over on the equine genetics board has quite a bit of info, and a very good explanation of KIT and the assorted white mutations.

http://www.equinecolor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1663

This thread has some nice photos of the racing white TB's from Japan.
http://www.equinecolor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1664

After taking another look at the new white foal that started this thread, I think he's a medicine hat palomino, and probably sabino, not dominant white.

[helen in FL]

Wow Gwen got a good one in this colt! Hope he gets imported to the US and sent south, like Florida!
Not that I don't WANT to go to canada... lol!

[xfactor fan]

I think the white TB in the Dominant white study is The White Fox. I also suspect that the Sunday Silence line white horses in Japan are DW not Sabino, but that is just a guess on my part.

[summerhorse]

I think that probably all the sabinos in TBs are actually dom. whites (stupid name) or some type (there is more than one mutation). SB1 is not in TBs. I think that all of these will end up being sabino 1-however many hundreds or thousands there may be!

I would put sabino/dom.white since we don't really have a way of knowing which is which and indeed how different they are.

Sire is cremello so the foal is def. palomino or buckskin, from his "cap" I would say palomino but hard to say in foal coat. She'll probably color test him anyway. Mom is certainly white (bay base). Right now he's a pinto (overo) but he could easily shed out that color and be a white.

Funny how easy it is to get these horses when you breed for them! Well relatively easy!

[color]

I hope I can shed some light on this one.

The dam is a bay based all white Sabino mare. You can only see some dark spots on her skin. The colt's sire is a cremello so is a double dilute on chestnut. The foal itself has a clear Palomino medicine hat and is ALL WHITE on the rest. There is not a single dark or other colored spot other than white except this bonnet he wears.

He is a very kind guy and has super long correct and straight legs. The dam is not too tall but sire is 17.1 hh so I would suspect this colt to mature around 16.1 hh minimum.

I modified the ad with the help of Jorge.

[helen in FL]

He is a wonder looking colt Gwen! I'm a big fan of the Glitter Please and Puchi lines!

[color]

Thank you Helen! He is a lovely boy and really kind.