A Skewbald runner

[Tonno100]

A skewbald horse called Honeypot Splenda had run twice in the UK this year, once over jumps and once over hurdles.

You can google her for a picture.

Personally I don't think this should be encouraged, clearly she has only been bred as a novelty, and has absolutely no aptitude for racing. I assume she will, however, proliferate her medicore, but coloured, genes.

[summerhorse]

She's not pure TB, I didn't realize you could breed 8 generations of a Part Bred and get it into the GSB?? And they wonder about the purity of American TBs???

Anyway not sure how you can call a horse a waste of time off 2 starts but her talent or lack of is due to her breeding not her color.

http://www.honeypotstuds.co.uk/

[Tonno100]

The analysis of the stallion from their website

Stetsen was very carefully bred by the stud on TB lines, with two crosses of "The Tetrarch". He has a beautiful head, longneck, short compact body, together with floating action and a very laid-back temperament, which he passes on to all his stock. He is the sire of Champions and Supreme Champions as well as Show Jumpers and Eventers, and is the first homebred coloured sire to have a homebred runner under NH Rules. Honeypot Shyenne being the first in 2000 and Honeypot Splenda in 2008. They may not be true TB, as you have to have 8 generations to be in the GSB, and they are the third generation, but you have to start somewhere!!

An un-accomplished sire in anyone's books

The dam isn't much better, never able to win and not from a black-type family, just not worth the effort in my opinion. "The first coloured sire to have a runner under NH rules" is not an achievement, especially since the horse (I've seen it's races, and work in the race-analysis field) is utterly hopeless.

[Jorge]

Tonno 100,

Thank you very much for this valuable watch. Quite interesting!

Apropos these non 100-percent "TBs". How can I find more information on a "Points-to-Points" Irish or English mare named "RACHEL Vi" (1959)? I have tried without any luck.

Thanks in advance for any help from any "Points-to-Points" connoisseur.

[Tonno100]

There's a Rachel (Tudor Minstrel - Par Avion) who was born in 1958, this is her production record

Angry Brigade 1971 C Reform - Rachel
Rebecca 1970 F Quorum - Rachel
Steel Pulse 1969 C Diatome - Rachel
Hetherton 1967 C Hethersett - Rachel
Unnamed 1966 C Rustam - Rachel
Cheral 1965 F Rustam - Rachel
Let Live 1964 C Never Say Die - Rachel

Is the name all the information you have? I have access to plenty of old stud books/point-to-point books (though these may start a bit later than 1960).

[Jorge]

Tonno 100,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response regarding
"RACHEL Vi". The official name of this subject 1959 mare includes the suffix "Vi", which is used to refer to a "Points-to-points" almost 100% percent Thoroughbred racer. Apparently she was sired by Tiverton's Pride out of an unknown mare. Thats the only information at hand.

[Truly]

In the UK and Ireland (and France) it is quite common for horses that are not 100% TB to race in Point to Point and under National Hunt rules (steeplechasing and hurdling)
But they do have to be registered with Weatherby's in either the General Stud 'GSB' (for TB's with over 8 registered generations) or The Non Thoroughbred Register 'NTR'
It would be highly unlightly to see a NTR in a flat race but as NH isn't 'all' about speed and jumping is the 'name of the game' quite a few NTR have been successful over fences without having fashionable sires or winning dams.

However I'd say she has quite a decent NH pedigree

I personally think the breeders need a pat on the back for sending their horses racing and doing a job rather than sitting in a pasture looking pretty.

Not every runner has a top class pedigree and there is only one winner.. I'd rather be the owner of a horse I'd bred jumping it's heart out against failed flat racers with black type pedigrees and finish a decent race even if it doesn't win

[Tonno100]

In the UK and Ireland (and France) it is quite common for horses that are not 100% TB to race in Point to Point and under National Hunt rules (steeplechasing and hurdling)
But they do have to be registered with Weatherby's in either the General Stud 'GSB' (for TB's with over 8 registered generations) or The Non Thoroughbred Register 'NTR'
It would be highly unlightly to see a NTR in a flat race but as NH isn't 'all' about speed and jumping is the 'name of the game' quite a few NTR have been successful over fences without having fashionable sires or winning dams.

However I'd say she has quite a decent NH pedigree

I personally think the breeders need a pat on the back for sending their horses racing and doing a job rather than sitting in a pasture looking pretty.

Not every runner has a top class pedigree and there is only one winner.. I'd rather be the owner of a horse I'd bred jumping it's heart out against failed flat racers with black type pedigrees and finish a decent race even if it doesn't win

She didn't finish her race, neither did the other skewbald they ran.

[Truly]

She didn't finish her race, neither did the other skewbald they ran.

I wasn't referring to her in particular but any small time stud or breeder that sends a homebred in against the big boys

Not every horse runs well in it's first race, maybe she won't ever run well and maybe she will? but her colour has nothing to do with it and there are good enough names in her pedigree to say she 'could' run a decent race.

Maybe another coloured horse they breed may win a race one day? At least they are sending their horses out to do the job unlike some of the unusual coloured breeders.

I've seen a lot of mediocre homebred horses run in Point to Points do well and then progress to NH successfully.
You have to remember the roots in NH racing are a little different to Flat racing and although just as popular over here and in Ireland, it's mainly small breeders in comparison to large commercial studs.

If they were aiming her for the 'Oaks' then they'd be nuts but they are being realistic and running her in low key NH races.

I'm not trying to be argumentative , I'm just putting another side to the negativity in this post

[Nessa]

Could it possibly be that the mare's performance on the track is related to the fact that her owners haven't really had that much experience with runners? Also the trainer doesn't look like he/she great at the job, and that can't possibly help much. Perhaps in more experienced hands she perform better?

[Tonno100]

I can see what you're saying Truly, but personally breeding her was a waste of time and money.

You can say "there are enough names to suggest she COULD run a decent race" about 99.5% of the horse population. Breeding should be about bringing those chances up. The sire of this filly was not a racehorse, and has accomplished seemingly little in any sphere, not advertised as being anything but colourful. The dam was, essentially, a useless racehorse.

I just don't understand why someone would bother, a bad/badly-bred horse costs just as much to raise as a good one, and has little commercial future.

Obviously it comes to their personal choices, but just saying I can't fathom it on any level!

[Truly]

But that is the difference from breeding a NH horse to a Flat horse...the small time NH breeders don't spend as much on breeding racehorses as the Flat breeders usually do and therefore don't have as much to lose if the horse fails as a racehorse...they also have the benefit that the type of horse they have bred can usually go and do another job.. eg. as an eventer or hunter etc.
(I know the Flat horses can also go on and do another job too )

The stud fee for a NH stallion would be anything between £400 to £4000..for a Flat stallion £1000 to £100,000 plus.
The Flat breeders take the biggest gamble as if their horses finish racing sound but useless at racing they may only be worth a tiny percent of their sires stud fee..a NH bred horse finishing sound but useless at racing should easily recoup it's sires stud fee.

So she's not a total waste of time or money..1. because she should still be worth the price she cost to be bred if she fails as a racehorse but goes on to be an allround riding club horse that can do a bit of Dressage , a bit of SJ and a bit of X-C and
2. because her breeders probably did it for the love of the sport rather than to make a profit

I don't personally know this horse or it's breeders but do know there is a larger % of NH breeders that do it as a hobby compared with the larger % of Flat breeders that do it for business.

[angrovestud]

Hi I am new to this forum so hello all, I do know Sue Kennedy who runs Honeypot Stud in the UK.
We have only just had Pure TB 2006 with colour come over from the USA, to the UK, like I was Framed, and Electrum no chance to breed our own. so some of us decided to take matters in to our own hands, a few years ago over here coloured horses were considered to be just for meat! and a few of us decided this just was not right! so we got show classe's for them and got them into county shows.
Now in the Uk a coloured horse sells quicker than a plain one.
I have started the coloured Thoroughbred Breeders assocation and with a few like minded people we can bring about the change that is needed.
I was framed has offspring and is back in the UK.
We are allowed to register any horse in the NTR and than cross it, we can breed colour in.
. This is exciting as who knows where this could end, at our stud we have bred for speed and have a coloured Tobiano colt whose grandsire is Dr Fong
http://www.angrovestud.com

[Tonno100]

Had a look at your website, its flashy and impressive, but full of spelling mistakes and misleading statements. "an impressive purse as a two year old 2,292. Pounds" - that is in no way an impressive purse for a 2-y-o.

Moreover, these horses stand very very very little chance of becoming successful racehorses, and to suggest as much in tantamount to lying - here is the Timeform summary of Captain Maverick, the sire of Ricco.

big, leggy, lengthy colt: of little account: sold 730 gns Doncaster October
Sales.

He has sired four runners under National Hunt rules, none of whom have ever acheived a Timeform rating, even a bad one!

[angrovestud]

Hi there
Nice You like the web site! I wonder back in 1700's if the same comms were available! we are starting at the beginning just like in 1700's you can not knock us for that.

We have some mares who's dams are Black type.
As for Captain Maverick he sired a show jumping Thoroughbred that sold to the USA for $1,000000 not bad for a duff sire and racehorse! Having won all he could in the UK.
we sell our stock as sports horses firstly are LONG term goal is 8 generations of pure Thoroughbreds to breed racehorses we are not selling Ricco as a sire of Racehorses to people we will however be standing his 2 son's at stud as dual purpose horses
and I am a dyslexic and I do the maintance of the site so I am sorry if this has caused you prob's.