Training to arm wrestle the Jockey Club into submission ...

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:20 pm

This year's Guaranteed Gold / Puchi Trap foal has been DNA tested and she has come back as a smoky black

I have to admit that I am totally smitten with them as her coat colour is developing. Like a melted molten Caramilk bar is about the only way to describe her ...

Here are a couple of pictures taken of the TCF Nightlight filly a few days ago:

and:

I think this has become my new favorite colour for sure ...

So - what do you think? Armed with my genetic test results showing her to be "black" but looking very much like a light golden bay, what are my chances to get her through as "black"?! :roll:

spex4me · Postby **spex4me** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:34 pm

Good luck , she is a beauty though!!!

Discovery · Postby **Discovery** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:50 pm

I'm in love lol, she's beautiful!

SouthernStar · Postby **SouthernStar** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:31 pm

Perhaps you could wet the filly down for the pictures?

Seriously though 99% of the thorougbreds that are said to be black are not, so armed with the DNA test to prove it perhaps it will not be that hard.
Good luck, she sure is a stunning filly!

Maureen · Postby **Maureen** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:11 am

Donna, where do you get the DNA testing done, and what kind of cost are we talking about?

Tonno100 · Postby **Tonno100** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:26 am

Surely colour registration is more for recognition than anything else, and (I honestly say this with all possible respect), does it really matter!?

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:49 am

She's sunburned right now, when her new coat comes in she should look black (well until IT starts to sunburn). Then wet her down as suggested and send in the photos and the DNA test. I'm not sure why it matters what she looks like if you have genetic proof she is black.

Sunday Silence · Postby **Sunday Silence** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:59 am

Why can't they accept black based on a photo of a black horse? They do it for dark bays and bays.

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:25 pm

because if your horse has all black hairs except for even a few at the muzzle or flanks or somewhere, it's considered brown and not black.
I'm pretty sure. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The few brown hairs would be hard to see in a photo

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:12 pm

TrueColours,

Thank you so much for posting these quite interesting photos. Gorgeous looking Thoroughbred filly. Great hue! If I were to describe her coat color
I would say it's like the effect of mixing a bar chocolate with water (rather than with milk).

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:00 pm

summerhorse - she isnt sunburnt at all. Her foal coat only came out about 2 weeks ago and it is still on parts of her legs, so with the cooler weather, the shorter days and the cloudy days/rain we've been having believe me - sunburnt is the LAST thing her coat is right now! :lol:

Sunday Silence - if she LOOKED what most people perceive a black horse to look like - no problem - it would probably be a done deal. But - does she even REMOTELY look like a black horse to you?! :wink:

Maureen - PetDNA in AZ charge $40.00 and University of Davis in CA charge $50.00

and send in the photos and the DNA test. I'm not sure why it matters what she looks like if you have genetic proof she is black.

I REALLY wish it was this easy ... :roll:

My RFF Pearlescent mare is a perlino, which is a double dilute of the BAY gene. She was genetically tested and confirmed to be perlino by the University of Davis which is the same lab that the JC uses for all of their DNA tests, so you gotta figure they trust what they are doing - right?! :roll:

The resistration application for her was sent in, along with the genetic test results, stating that she was a perlino, here is genetic proof of that, and the breeders understood perfectly well that the JC did not have a colour classification for perlino so they asked if they could classify her as a "bay" which would be the most "right" thing they could call her

Do you think the JC actually LISTENED to them and READ the DNA report?

Uh ... nope ...

They registered her as palomino because to their eyes, THATS what she looks like. So - no matter that all manner of red flags will go up once she starts producing foals and they dont follow the genetic mapping that a palomino mare SHOULD produce - in their infinite wisdom they ignored the scientific proof and the letter sent as well

So - what makes anyone think that submitting the application for this filly with the genetic test results will make them believe anything other than what they want to believe???

Evenheaven · Postby **Evenheaven** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:54 pm

True colours..... I can read your frustration and I feel like I'm talking with Jerry Tyler. If only the JC would get out of the 1800s!!! Good luck in trying to make some headway with the JC... Jerry Tyler gave up

Sunday Silence · Postby **Sunday Silence** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:00 pm

Do any of you think the JC will just do away with registering horses as black on down the road due to its subjectiveness?

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:13 pm

Do any of you think the JC will just do away with registering horses as black on down the road due to its subjectiveness?

If this didnt have scientific PROOF behind it, I could understand the logic behind your question. But if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and is genetically tested to BE a duck - how can you call it a chicken instead? :wink:

My breeder friend over in Germany is pushing now to recognize cremello and buckskin. The German JC is all for it (and she was the one who also spearheaded the change to recognize palomino a few years back)
She imported some palomino TB mares, the German inspectors came out to see the "chestnut" mares and freaked that they were being described as such and petitioned the global JC's for change. They all agreed (except the American JC - no big surprise there ... :roll:

) and the American JC was dragged kicking and screaming into submission on the palomino issue. They had no other choice and they wont on the buckskin and cremello designations that are coming as well

Evenheaven - I agree one thousand percent! Jerry faced it with Puchilingui. They refused to accept him for what he was - genetically - so they all decided in their infinite wisdom, yet again, to call him a "grey/roan" even though neither his sire or dam was a grey and it was a genetic impossibility for him to BE a roan! Now - he has all of these sons and daughters (that arent grey/roans either) that they JC has classified as grey/roans because now they DO have a grey/roan parent - Puchilingui ...

As the keeper of the record books - dammit - they have an obligation to their membership to keep correct records, not what happens to suit them the best at the moment or what is the easiest or what "has always been done"

I AM going to push for her to be registered as black. Very very hard. Thats what she is and armed with the DNA test results I would like to believe that they will agree with me. A girl can always hope anyhow ... :roll:

mehile · Postby **mehile** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:15 pm

They shouldn't as it is an actual color. Actually it's one of the two base colors. everything else is just modifiers acting on the base....But with the JC who knows :roll: