Colorful TB photo gallery

StayOutFront · Postby **StayOutFront** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:54 am

I thought people might find this of interest - especially Jorge:

www.barbaralivingston.com/gallery/album42

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm

Dear Stay Out Front,

Thank you so much for the great referral. All the photos are great, yet how nice to follow the graying evolution of the Unbridled’s Song—Laptop colt. What a gorgeous chestnut, then, what an éclat gray! My favorite two:

http://www.barbaralivingston.com/galler ... 2/JJ0P5593
http://www.barbaralivingston.com/gallery/album42/Laptop

As per the whites, as Tony the tiger would have said: It’s gr-r-r-reat!

Oh my goodness, I would really love to see Barbara D. Livingston take some pictures of
the alleged genuine-looking Catch A Bird’s roan progeny. I am referring to the following
cases:

01. GOLDHILL PARK (Bay H 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/goldhill+park
02. IN THE HAND (Gray or Brown 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/in+the+hand3
03. LILAC HILL (Bay M 2000) http://www.pedigreequery.com/lilac+hill2
04. RED NOBLE (Bay G 1996) http://www.pedigreequery.com/red+noble3
05. WHISTLE DOWN (Chestnut H 1999) http://www.pedigreequery.com/whistle+down2
06. “by CATCH A BIRD—BENDING STAR” (Bay M 1997)
her dam’s pedigree at http://www.pedigreequery.com/bending+star
07. WILD DOVE (Bay M 1997) http://www.pedigreequery.com/wild+dove3
08. SLIP CATCH (Bay M 1993) http://www.pedigreequery.com/slip+catch
09. TURFSIDE STAR (Bay H 1998) http://www.pedigreequery.com/turfside+star
10. FLOYD (Chestnut H 2004) http://www.pedigreequery.com/floyd5
11. BLETCH CATCH (Bay M 2005) http://www.pedigreequery.com/bletch+catch

Thanks again for the valuable watch.

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:29 pm

AWESOME!

Painted Desert is hiding a lot of their beauties from us!

color · Postby **color** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:12 am

Do you think they are all roan? The Bletch Catch pedigree did not work, can you resend?

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:05 am

I don't think they have been studied enough to determine if they are true classic roans, with the same mutation in the same place.

However what is known, is that Catch a Bird, a stallion from solid parents, had white stripes down one side, and that several of his offspring appear to have the classic roan pattern of dark heads, dark legs and scattered white hairs throughout the body.

This may be a new mutation but until some lab sequences the gene, and looks at classic roan, and the TB version of roan, we won't know.

In fact the roan vs roan may be like what was found in the Dominant White situation. There are several identical phenotypes--pure white horses--with mutations in the KIT gene, but within each population of white horses, there was a slightly different mutation.

StayOutFront · Postby **StayOutFront** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:20 am

summerhorse wrote:
Painted Desert is hiding a lot of their beauties from us!

I agree...they've got some wonderful horses/mares! I've never seen anything quite like Silver Cindio, for instance, and Silver Angel Eyes.

I've got a silly question: Is Silver Angel Eyes a medicine hat? (pic 442) Or how about the 2006 Adriftonapark, or San Gabriel Spirit, foals?

I didn't know if they need to have a big "cap," or if a red foretop/ears counts as a medicine hat. I've tried to look around online for "certain" info about medicine hats but hit a dead-end.

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:15 pm

StayOutFront wrote:
summerhorse wrote: I didn't know if they need to have a big "cap," or if a red foretop/ears counts as a medicine hat. I've tried to look around online for "certain" info about medicine hats but hit a dead-end.

Dear StayOut Front,

As far as I have searched on that very same question, your cited proposition is correct.

All the Best,

StayOutFront · Postby **StayOutFront** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:38 pm

Jorge, would you guess the San Gabriel Spirit is a medicine hat (first and second shots, with a bit more chestnut on the head), but the others probably aren't?:

http://www.barbaralivingston.com/galler ... ielSpirit1

http://www.barbaralivingston.com/gallery/album42/Foals

http://www.barbaralivingston.com/galler ... ftonapark6

http://www.barbaralivingston.com/galler ... sAngelEyes

Or would none quite qualify? Thanks!

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:13 pm

Dear Stay Out Front,

My opinion as an avid observer (but not a genetic expert) is that all 4 pictures are showing examples of medicine hat equines. Would like to see an additional whole body photo on the third case to see how "stained" he may be. If too loaded then I would classify it as a "stained white". I always insist on the necessity of using the following nomenclatures:

"white" --- for the unmaculated whites up to the conservative
medicine hats. (from CLARENCE STEWARD [colt 1977]
up to PDF SNOW DRIFT [filly 2008])

"stained white" --- for the loud maculated medicine hats up to a heavily
maculated tone that, yet, it's more white than solid
color (from ARCTIC MYSTIQUE [colt 2007] up
to PAINTED MYSTIQUE) and the 2004-FILLY by KING
O THE MANA out of FLAMING KATEY.

"marked bay" ("marked chestnut" etc) --- for the heavily maculated tone
that is more solid colored than white (from COLOUR
YOUR DASH [colt 2006] and MISS GUGUSS [mare
1982] up to AIRDRIE APACHE [stallion 1993]).

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:19 pm

Hmmm, the head shade of that Panoramic - Snow Boot Dancer colt
looks quite interesting!

(reference: http://www.barbaralivingston.com/gallery/album42/Foals )

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:33 pm

As for the alleged genuine-looking roans from Catch A Bird, I have seen the photos of ODD COLOURS and SLIP CATCH and to me they qualify from a phenotypical perspective. I have heard "hearsay" that the same goes for GOLDHILL PARK and RED NOBLE but cannot affirm it. The rest on the list below may also qualify, but again, its only "hearsay". That's all I can say. That's the reason why on these cases pictures are a must. :wink:

StayOutFront · Postby **StayOutFront** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:49 pm

Jorge wrote:Hmmm, the head shade of that Panoramic - Snow Boot Dancer colt
looks quite interesting!

(reference: http://www.barbaralivingston.com/gallery/album42/Foals )

As I understand it, that colt is black. His dam was black (really black), by the black Secretariat stallion Prince Stanley. In the photo, the colt was shedding (hence the raccoony eyes)

.

Thanks so much for your thoughts about the 'stained whites' and other tones. I especially appreciate that 'stained' description as it's hard to call such horses "white," but that's how they're often IDed nowadays.

Thank you!

color · Postby **color** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:38 am

Jorge,

as far as I know some of these roan mares already had roan foals in Australia so I would think they are true roans that produce 50% roans as every other roan colored horse.

Could you maybe put up the pedigree of Bletch Catch as it does not work or the link is not working correctly, or I am just not able to get there???

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:15 am

color,

The question is not if they are roans, but what kind of roans they are. Given that there are no roans in Catch a Bird's family, he seems to be a mutation. The mutation may be the same as the classic roan mutation, or something new.

It would be great if someone decided to study this family of horses.

Actually, it would be great if someone decided to analyze regular roans to find out if there are a couple of versions of the classic roan mutation. If there were several similar but not identical mutations, it might explain the occasional report of roans that carry a double dose of the roan gene.

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:16 pm

I wish there was someone down there who was interested enough to at least get DNA samples from these horses (I think I read that he had 4 roan looking ones and at least one produced 2 or 3 roan foals. From what I understand CAB would have the mutation to pass on but he doesn't have it to display which is why his roan % is skewed. There was a good article way back on it but I can't remember all the scientific stuff!!

Anyway none of these are getting any younger and I think at least one has sort of vanished off into QH/stock ranch land in NZ. It sure would be nice to be able to import one of the mares and breed her to really nice stallions.