COLOR QUESTION?????

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Sunday Rider
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COLOR QUESTION?????

Postby Sunday Rider » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:05 am

If I breed my Gray mare to a Chestnut with 4 white socks......What will I get????
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Re: COLOR QUESTION?????

Postby Linda_d » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:05 am

Sunday Rider wrote:If I breed my Gray mare to a Chestnut with 4 white socks......What will I get????


That all depends on what your mare's base color beneath the gray is. There's a 50% chance of getting a gray because gray is dominant.

However, there's a 50% chance that the mare will give her base color gene to the foal rather than gray gene. If the mare's base color is black, brown, or bay, then the foal will be black, brown or bay because all are black-based and dominant over red-based, which is chestnut. If the mare's base color is chestnut, then she'll give a chestnut (red based) gene, so the foal will be chestnut.

Predicting white markings is like predicting lottery numbers ... you can't. The thought is that there's more than one gene that controls how much white a horse has. While many horses with the sabino and/or rabicano genes will throw many horses with lots of white, they sometimes don't. On the other hand, sometimes two horses with very little white will produce a foal with all kinds of white.

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Postby xfactor fan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:42 am

Unless of course the gray carries two copies of the grey gene, then 100% of the foals will be gray.

Did the gray stallion have a non gray parent?

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: COLOR QUESTION?????

Postby RiddleMeThis » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:00 pm

Linda_d wrote:However, there's a 50% chance that the mare will give her base color gene to the foal rather than gray gene. If the mare's base color is black, brown, or bay, then the foal will be black, brown or bay because all are black-based and dominant over red-based, which is chestnut. If the mare's base color is chestnut, then she'll give a chestnut (red based) gene, so the foal will be chestnut.
The gray will ALWAYS give its/a base color gene, whether its heterozygous gray or homozygous gray. They only difference is the likelihood of the foal being gray. Also even if the mare is black or bay or brown it is still possible for her to have a chestnut foal, unless she is homozygous black.

Predicting white markings is like predicting lottery numbers ... you can't. The thought is that there's more than one gene that controls how much white a horse has. While many horses with the sabino and/or rabicano genes will throw many horses with lots of white, they sometimes don't. On the other hand, sometimes two horses with very little white will produce a foal with all kinds of white.
I agree with this, though to expand a bit more its more likely that a louder sabino will have a sabino foal than two solids producing a loud foal.

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helen in FL
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Postby helen in FL » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:10 pm

Actually she could still very well get a chestnut foal even if the mare is black, brown or bay. She will only get a black if the mare is homozygous for the black gene. If she is even Ee then she can get a chestnut. Not taking into account for Agouti (the bay gene).
If the mare is homozygous black based and recessive agouti then you only have the chance for a black or bay foal if she doesn't contribute her gray gene. But that is the only scenario for that option. Otherwise you have a chance of ALL the colors, chestnut being higher than the others, with a 50/50 chance for gray and 50/50 chance for leg white. However, I have noticed that horses with leg white above the knee are more apt to throw it. Half down the cannon or lower, it's a slim shot at best.

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Jorge
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Re: COLOR QUESTION?????

Postby Jorge » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:09 pm

Sunday Rider wrote:If I breed my Gray mare to a Chestnut with 4 white socks......What will I get????


Aside from the basic "chestnut versus gray coat" punnet square issue, I think that perhaps the question is focused on the possibilities of achieving a gray equine with white socks. If that's the case let me share that for quite some time I have observed these kind of crossess, and I have noticed that most of the time the resulting gray babies are far less white leg marked than their white leg marked parent. According to my casual observations white leg marked grays are somehow rare. But at the same time I have observed that certain gray lineages, like say, Unbridled's Song, tend to be more liberal in terms of stamping white legs.

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Postby spex4me » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:22 am

A foal probably !!! lol jk.... My 3 year old filly is the result of a chestnut sire with some white (sabino carrier I think though not dominant) and a bay based grey mare with little white (maybe a sock or two):
http://www.pedigreequery.com/saluki+gold+rush

Her 2 year old full sister is a solid bay based grey, Saluki Steel:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l86/depbel/CeltyRemmyBlackJackbabydonkey006.jpg

And below is a 2 year old half sister out of a solid bay, My Favorite Saluki:

Image

So good luck lol!! :lol:
trying to come up with something brillant..... this may take a while. :)

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Jorge
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Re: COLOR QUESTION?????

Postby Jorge » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:25 am

Jorge wrote:
Sunday Rider wrote:If I breed my Gray mare to a Chestnut with 4 white socks......What will I get????


Aside from the basic "chestnut versus gray coat" punnet square issue, I think that perhaps the question is focused on the possibilities of achieving a gray equine with white socks. If that's the case let me share that for quite some time I have observed these kind of crossess, and I have noticed that most of the time the resulting gray babies are far less white leg marked than their white leg marked parent. According to my casual observations white leg marked grays are somehow rare. But at the same time I have observed that certain gray lineages, like say, Unbridled's Song, tend to be more liberal in terms of stamping white legs.


On the other hand, I have also observed that when a gray parent throws a non-gray product, if that foal happens to be of chestnut color, then it is more loudly white-leg marked than the non-gray white-leg marked parent itself.

Comments and observations on this angle?

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: COLOR QUESTION?????

Postby RiddleMeThis » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:21 pm

Jorge wrote:On the other hand, I have also observed that when a gray parent throws a non-gray product, if that foal happens to be of chestnut color, then it is more loudly white-leg marked than the non-gray white-leg marked parent itself.

Comments and observations on this angle?

There has been a long held theory(and imo quite proven) that black inhibits white. So say a horse has the genetics to have four stockings above the knee. If that horse was chestnut based you would have the full four stockings. If that horse is bay based you may still get four stockings but they will probably be lower. If that horse is black based you will get even less. Maybe only three stockings or just four low socks.

True Colours Farm has three full siblings that show this beautifully
Chestnut based
Image

Bay based
Image

Black based
Image

So if the gray horse your talking about is black or bay based it makes perfect sense that chestnut offspring would have more white than they would.

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Postby Sunday Rider » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:20 pm

She came from the Ramzes ,The Centry Sire line. He was a a great influence in the Grand Prix show jumping scene, he was a gray. Thanks so much for the color info:) Her base color is Chestnut, So I'm thinking I may have a chestnut with 4 white socks. Hopefull next year around this time we will all know and course, I'll have braging rites:)
"Give me any horse that has the heart of a Thoroughbread" Nora