Changing the face (and LOOK!) of TB's in the years to come!
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Re: Here is MY vote
Chestnut - Roan (it does exist)
yep, sure does, got on on the 26th of this Month.
http://www.geocities.com/rhftn02/tbjcaphacolored09.html
see BUDWEISER at the bottom, the only solid chestnut he has is around his ears and upper neck, all other is a beautiful roan with dark chstnut spot throughout.
yep, sure does, got on on the 26th of this Month.
http://www.geocities.com/rhftn02/tbjcaphacolored09.html
see BUDWEISER at the bottom, the only solid chestnut he has is around his ears and upper neck, all other is a beautiful roan with dark chstnut spot throughout.
Budweiser is not a ROAN in its true meaning. He is a Sabino / Rabicano.
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabs
Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabs
- SouthernStar
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Sorry I have to agree to disagree on this...at least the roan and black bay part
Base colors
1. Chestnut
2. Black
3. Bay
4. White--true white
So, technically the list is...
01. WHITE --
02. CHESTNUT--
03. PALOMINO--
04. CREMELLO --
05. BAY--
06. BUCKSKIN --
07. PERLINO--
08. BLACK-- 09. SMOKY BLACK--
10. SMOKY CREAM--
Black Bay isn't technically a color as the horse is bay, just as liver chestnut etc.
Roan does not exist in thoroughbreds, it's either due to sabino or rabicano
GREY--possibly the horses base color and then add the modifier--GREY? It is rather frustrating to see a grey horse and not know what it's color actually is.
Base colors
1. Chestnut
2. Black
3. Bay
4. White--true white
So, technically the list is...
01. WHITE --
02. CHESTNUT--
03. PALOMINO--
04. CREMELLO --
05. BAY--
06. BUCKSKIN --
07. PERLINO--
08. BLACK-- 09. SMOKY BLACK--
10. SMOKY CREAM--
Black Bay isn't technically a color as the horse is bay, just as liver chestnut etc.
Roan does not exist in thoroughbreds, it's either due to sabino or rabicano
GREY--possibly the horses base color and then add the modifier--GREY? It is rather frustrating to see a grey horse and not know what it's color actually is.
www.FreedomSporthorses.com
Standing the Thoroughbred stallion Regal Regalia-chestnut frame overo
Standing the Thoroughbred stallion Regal Regalia-chestnut frame overo
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SouthernStar wrote:Sorry I have to agree to disagree on this...at least the roan and black bay part
Base colors
1. Chestnut
2. Black
3. Bay
4. White--true white
So, technically the list is...
01. WHITE --
02. CHESTNUT--
03. PALOMINO--
04. CREMELLO --
05. BAY--
06. BUCKSKIN --
07. PERLINO--
08. BLACK-- 09. SMOKY BLACK--
10. SMOKY CREAM--
Black Bay isn't technically a color as the horse is bay, just as liver chestnut etc.
Roan does not exist in thoroughbreds, it's either due to sabino or rabicano
GREY--possibly the horses base color and then add the modifier--GREY? It is rather frustrating to see a grey horse and not know what it's color actually is.
reedhill wrote:Ok, I'll go for that, LOL.........but does a roan just refer to greys?
It seems in sale catalogs, roans are always some dark to light color of grey? One of Allamystique's bay filly's GLAD ITS A GIRL out of OOPSITAGIRL, the filly is roaned throughout her barrel/flanks, but registered as bay.
Actually, I believe (New Zealand?) there has actually been a line of roans found. True roans, identifiable by the genotype
Greys are NOT roans - no matter what stage of their fading they're in.
I despise the whole blackbay silliness. Every bay is a black underneath the agouti!
However, we'll never get THAT one by the JC.
I'd keep it simple.
Black
Bay
Chestnut
Grey
Roan
Pinto (base colour), list type if needed or possible.
Dilution gene (list one or two copies, which type - cremello 1x, 2x, sabino, overo 1x, 2x, roan 1x, 2x)
JMO
- TrueColours
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truly - there are little boxes which we can check off. If its not there, it doesnt exist in the eyes of the JC!
Here are my suggestions:
01. WHITE --
02. ROAN -- I am going to suggest this one as a totally separate category from grey ...
03. GRAY --
04. SILVER-DAPPLE -- Doesn't exist in TB's
05. CREMELLO --
06. PALOMINO --
07. SORREL -- Doesn't exist in TB's is Chestnut
08. CHESTNUT --
09. CHAMPAGNE -- Doesn't exist in TB's
10. LIVER-CHESTNUT-- Not needed
11. PERLINO --
12. BUCKSKIN --
13. DUN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
14. RED-DUN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
15. BAY --
16. DARK-BAY -- Not needed
17. DARK-BROWN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
18. GRULLA -- Doesn't exist in TB's
19. BLACK --
20. PINTO -- not needed
21. OVERO -- not needed
22. TOBIANO -- Doesn't exist in TB's
23. APPALOOSA BLANKET -- Doesn't exist in TB's
24. APPALOOSA LEOPARD -- Doesn't exist in TB's
25. SMOKY BLACK
26. SMOKY CREAM
And having said the appaloosa patterns dont exist in TB's, what would one call "Showmethemoolah"?!
Gwen - thanks for posting those roan shots - I'd only ever seen Slip Catch before and not the others...
Here are my suggestions:
01. WHITE --
02. ROAN -- I am going to suggest this one as a totally separate category from grey ...
03. GRAY --
04. SILVER-DAPPLE -- Doesn't exist in TB's
05. CREMELLO --
06. PALOMINO --
07. SORREL -- Doesn't exist in TB's is Chestnut
08. CHESTNUT --
09. CHAMPAGNE -- Doesn't exist in TB's
10. LIVER-CHESTNUT-- Not needed
11. PERLINO --
12. BUCKSKIN --
13. DUN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
14. RED-DUN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
15. BAY --
16. DARK-BAY -- Not needed
17. DARK-BROWN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
18. GRULLA -- Doesn't exist in TB's
19. BLACK --
20. PINTO -- not needed
21. OVERO -- not needed
22. TOBIANO -- Doesn't exist in TB's
23. APPALOOSA BLANKET -- Doesn't exist in TB's
24. APPALOOSA LEOPARD -- Doesn't exist in TB's
25. SMOKY BLACK
26. SMOKY CREAM
And having said the appaloosa patterns dont exist in TB's, what would one call "Showmethemoolah"?!
Gwen - thanks for posting those roan shots - I'd only ever seen Slip Catch before and not the others...
www.TrueColoursFarm.com
Breeders of unique coloured Thoroughbreds & Sport Horses - standing Guaranteed Gold - 16.1hh cremello TB stallion - CSHA and AQHA, APHA, ApHC listed
Breeders of unique coloured Thoroughbreds & Sport Horses - standing Guaranteed Gold - 16.1hh cremello TB stallion - CSHA and AQHA, APHA, ApHC listed
- RiddleMeThis
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Showmethemoolah is a heavily expressed rabicano.
And yes there are a handful of "supposed" True Roans, however they are 1. not in the US and there are at most ten of them, and its debatable whether it IS true roan or just something mimicking true roan. They have not been identified by genotype because the roan mutation has no been found yet.
I see absolutely no reason to put "roan" in the database for these horses because of the above. And I also wouldnt put it in because it wouldn't be used for just those handful of horses. You would end up with the same problem we have now. Grays being listed as roans.
And yes there are a handful of "supposed" True Roans, however they are 1. not in the US and there are at most ten of them, and its debatable whether it IS true roan or just something mimicking true roan. They have not been identified by genotype because the roan mutation has no been found yet.
I see absolutely no reason to put "roan" in the database for these horses because of the above. And I also wouldnt put it in because it wouldn't be used for just those handful of horses. You would end up with the same problem we have now. Grays being listed as roans.
- Truly
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Ok I see, Thanks TC for answering.
Our forms are a little different and the vet has to fill the ID part in and take bloods for DNA...I believe you guys can fill ID forms and pluck hairs yourself? is that true?
We give the vet the relevant info eg. date of birth and sire and dam, but they fill in colour by word not number and draw the description and microchip and draw blood at the same time within a month of birth.
As we haven't had a colour born over here yet that isn't allowed I don't know what would happen...although I do know a vet would not write bay if he saw a buckskin in front of his eyes.
I don't think it would be necessary to have all the patterns listed because they could be used as a generic term..I do think the patterns should be described in the ID part of the form and any DNA colour test result could be added to that description if wanted.
I just think bombarding the ISBC with too many changes will hit a brick wall.
My suggestions would be:
Chestnut
Bay
Dark bay/Brown (I don't think people breeding these colours would worry about about the DNA difference)
Black
Cremello
Palomino
Smokey Cream
Perlino
Buckskin
Smokey Black
All the above colours as base colours and then add any of the following to a base colour eg. Bay-Overo
Max Sabino (for all white/medicine hats and loads of white)
Min Sabino(for ones with a belly spot)
Roan(if they really do exist)
Grey(should be in this catagory as nearly always have to send back to change colour when older)
Overo (generic term for most patterns eg. tobiano. tovero)
I don't know the number codes so haven't written any
Our forms are a little different and the vet has to fill the ID part in and take bloods for DNA...I believe you guys can fill ID forms and pluck hairs yourself? is that true?
We give the vet the relevant info eg. date of birth and sire and dam, but they fill in colour by word not number and draw the description and microchip and draw blood at the same time within a month of birth.
As we haven't had a colour born over here yet that isn't allowed I don't know what would happen...although I do know a vet would not write bay if he saw a buckskin in front of his eyes.
I don't think it would be necessary to have all the patterns listed because they could be used as a generic term..I do think the patterns should be described in the ID part of the form and any DNA colour test result could be added to that description if wanted.
I just think bombarding the ISBC with too many changes will hit a brick wall.
My suggestions would be:
Chestnut
Bay
Dark bay/Brown (I don't think people breeding these colours would worry about about the DNA difference)
Black
Cremello
Palomino
Smokey Cream
Perlino
Buckskin
Smokey Black
All the above colours as base colours and then add any of the following to a base colour eg. Bay-Overo
Max Sabino (for all white/medicine hats and loads of white)
Min Sabino(for ones with a belly spot)
Roan(if they really do exist)
Grey(should be in this catagory as nearly always have to send back to change colour when older)
Overo (generic term for most patterns eg. tobiano. tovero)
I don't know the number codes so haven't written any
- angrovestud
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Hi Truly
thats what I think should happen to truly you are so right,
if it was done there could be no mix ups.
VALENCAY (the actual name was VALENÇAY), was a chestnut paint Thoroughbred, who was auctioned at Deauville as a yearling. Data provided by Jorge A. Martínez.
Tobiano should be included as a Patten unless Jorge is wrong
http://www.pedigreequery.com/valencay2
in your papers Jorge you suggest he was Tobiano.
thats what I think should happen to truly you are so right,
if it was done there could be no mix ups.
VALENCAY (the actual name was VALENÇAY), was a chestnut paint Thoroughbred, who was auctioned at Deauville as a yearling. Data provided by Jorge A. Martínez.
Tobiano should be included as a Patten unless Jorge is wrong
http://www.pedigreequery.com/valencay2
in your papers Jorge you suggest he was Tobiano.
A coloured leaving its mark
Angrove stud breeding your racing colours
I am dyslexic it can be funny!
Angrove stud breeding your racing colours
I am dyslexic it can be funny!
- RiddleMeThis
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